Added Support to Sextet Tenor Drums + More Drumline
Recently when writing drumline music in MuseScore, I noticed a couple things that I'd like to bring up for discussion to possibly be added.
Specifically, 6 tenor drums. I am used to writing for 6 (4 + 2 Spocks) instead of the default 5 (4 + 1 Spock). However, there is no sound I can use for another spock, but it would be nice to have another one for multiple uses. Example:
Also, tenor drum rim shots. While there are for snares, there are none for tenors. Every once and a while I find myself using these for drum features, but I never seem to use the mute feature.
Another thing I'd like is the use of a unison bass drum hit with only one note, preferably the middle line. Basically so you don't have to click every single drum into the staff, instead just click the middle line and have the big "BOOM" that all five would make (or the click from the rims). Another picture example:
Much like above, I'd also kinda like bass drum rim shots. Not many times are these used, but it is a nice feat.
I attached a couple images of what it could possibly look like.
Thanks for considering.
| Attachment | Size |
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| Tenor Music.png | 14.14 KB |
| Bass.png | 2.49 KB |
Comments
If you press the "Edit Drumset" button in the drum input window, you'll find you can customzie things pretty much however you like. If you are considered about playback, though, you'd still have to find a soundfont that includes the sounds you refer to.
In reply to If you press the "Edit by Marc Sabatella
Okay, that helps.
One final request. I noticed the tenor has the option for stick clicks built in, but no sound is made with it. Is there any way to get the snare stick click sound to go for the tenor line as well?
There are rimshots included in both the Tenor and Bass drum instruments.
Maybe you should read the section in the handbook on writing drumset parts.....
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/drum-notation-0
In reply to There are rimshots included by ChurchOrganist
I've been writing drum music for quite some time now, especially drumline.
There are rim clicks (tenor) and rim knocks (bass) for the said instrument, but not rim SHOTS like the snare has. I'm looking for that "GAT!" sound like the snare, being it has rim shots, and rim clicks.
In reply to I've been writing drum music by Ryan Bredeson
Maybe I'm mistaken, but in 2.0.3, I do the following:
1) add Tenor Drums (from the Marching Percussion section of the instrument list)
2) note input mode
3) select the second icon from the left - an "x" notehead on the bottom space
4) enter that note
Is this not a tenor drum rim shot? There are similar sounds for each of the other staff spaces. They are labelled "Drum4 Rim", "Drum3 Rim", "Drum2 Rim", Drum1 Rim", and "Spock Rim", adn they both look and playback as I would expect. Am I missing something?
In reply to Maybe I'm mistaken, but in by Marc Sabatella
Those are rim clicks, rather than shots. Rim shots sound more like what is found in this video at 1:08. https://youtu.be/WUJGHXRDiuA?t=1m8s (Bluecoats - Vortex)
In reply to I've been writing drum music by Ryan Bredeson
In that case you will need to provide samples with an MIT compatible licence for addition to the Marching Percussion section of the default soundfont.
As far as I'm aware the use of rimshots on tenors is unusual? Please let me know if I'm wrong - I'm not a drumline specialist.
EDIT
BTW I'll see what I can do about a 2nd spock - I may be able to modify a copy of the existing sample.
In reply to In that case you will need to by ChurchOrganist
Thanks for checking on that second spock. Means a lot
Not necessarily unusual, I've heard it used a lot in DCI music, and my school's drumline uses rim shots on tenor multiple times for each feature. It is probably more in the lesser used category than the unusual...
In reply to Thanks for checking on that by Ryan Bredeson
Quick question - are the tenors numbered high to low or low to high??
In reply to Quick question - are the by ChurchOrganist
Depends on how people, even companies view it.
Some people use this: (Inches - Drum Number)
HOWEVER, I see most people use something along the lines of this
In reply to Depends on how people, even by Ryan Bredeson
OK, thanks :)
The good news is that I've been able to pitch-shift the existing spock samples to provide a second, higher spock.
The not so good news is that whilst implementing this I found that there is considerable work needed on the whole Drumline Tenors instrument, to make it work properly.
Expect a downloadable update in a few weeks :)
In reply to OK, thanks :) The good news by ChurchOrganist
Michael, just so you know, I did a little bit of cleanup last week: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/2530
In reply to Michael, just so you know, I by Isaac Weiss
That all looks OK.
In reply to OK, thanks :) The good news by ChurchOrganist
Thanks. Usually the second spock is a half step higher than the first, landing it on the first leger line above the staff (even though the rest of the drums are on spaces).
Again, thanks a ton for working on this.
In reply to Thanks. Usually the second by Ryan Bredeson
A semitone seems a little odd?
I have gone with the tunings for Field Corps given on this Yamaha site.....
http://yamahacorpus.tumblr.com/post/110747748856/tuning-tips-for-marchi…
So the second spock is a minor third above the 1st which is consistent with the Youtube clip you posted. From which, incidentally, I have been able to extract a couple of tenor rimshot samples, so if pitch shifting is successful you may have tenor rimshots soon.
In reply to A semitone seems a little by ChurchOrganist
Incidentally, I like that sound better than just the half step. I'm used to tenors being 6 6 8 10 12 13, so I'm used to having to tune them closer. However, most sets are 6 8 10 12 13 14, so it'll sound better to have the minor third.
Tenor Shots sound awesome! Cannot wait for those if you can get them!
In reply to OK, thanks :) The good news by ChurchOrganist
ONE LAST THING:
Did you manage to get the sound of the stick clicks to work for the tenors? It is there, but no sound is ever made.
In reply to ONE LAST THING: Did you by Ryan Bredeson
There are no stick click samples.
Just normal, buzz roll (not very effective!), rim knock and shell knock.
If you want stick clicks I suggest you use Edit drumset to use the one from the standard drumset, but I will look into replicating that in the Drumline presets.
In reply to There are no stick click by ChurchOrganist
There is for tenor (shown in picture).
![Capture.PNG]( "Capture.PNG")
Could the sample for the snare drum stick click be used as the sound?
I too have noticed the buzzes not being extremely effective. Are there any plans to change that?
In reply to There is for tenor (shown in by Ryan Bredeson
Sure use the snare drum stick click if you like - sticks are sticks :)
I'm working on the buzzes, but it will require a lot of programmming in my DAW so don't hold your breath :)
In reply to Sure use the snare drum stick by ChurchOrganist
I was wondering if (sorry I'm giving a bit of a workload) you could get the snare click sound for the tenor samples, so I could interchangeably use both snare and tenor clicks. Is there a way to perhaps, transfer the sound to work on the pitch in tenors?
In reply to I was wondering if (sorry I'm by Ryan Bredeson
Yes - that will be simple to do - I just need to add the sample to the instrument - will just take a couple of minutes :)
In reply to OK, thanks :) The good news by ChurchOrganist
Just a quick note, I made a mistake in the numbering there.
The 6" should be drum 6, and the 8" should be drum 5. Then again, 10" should be 1, 12" should be 2, and so on.
In reply to In that case you will need to by ChurchOrganist
A rim shot, in case you weren't sure, is where you hit both the rim and the drum at the same time with the same stick. Rimshots on tenors are actually really common, especially on the spocks and lower drums. There's also a type of rimshot called a "skank," called such because of the sound it makes; it's where you hit a rim shot on one of the lowest two drums, closer to the rim than usual, and immediately muffle it so it produces a short and sharp sound. It would be nice to see sounds for skanks as well if possible c:
In reply to A rim shot, in case you by Lucas Verde
Yup - I know what a rimshot is from my very basic knowledge of playing snare drum :)
The problem with all these sounds is getting suitably licensed samples.
If you want skank rimshots find me the samples and it will be possible.
In reply to Yup - I know what a rimshot by ChurchOrganist
Are we able to just record these sounds with something like our phone? I don't know how this stuff works. I have a set of quads at home (6 pack) and could record rim shots and skanks if need be.
In reply to Are we able to just record by sday88
The microphone on your phone isn't likely to be of good enough quality for sampling.
If you are able to I would invest in a USB microphone such as the Samson Go Mike.....
http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/microphones/usb-microphones/g…
or, even better a portable digital recorder such as one of the Zoom field recording products.....
https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording.
Such a purchase would be an investment for the future.
In reply to The microphone on your phone by ChurchOrganist
Yeah, I'm not that dedicated. :-) However, I know a couple people that may have this type of equipment. They did the recordings for a video we did for the Pittsburgh Steeline that I am a member of. And I think my buddy has one of the dual mic ones on that page (or one like it). What specifics would be required for the sound file? Type of file? Settings during the recording? Etc?
In reply to Yeah, I'm not that dedicated. by sday88
I can convert most sample formats, so sample type is irrelevant - just use the one native to your OS, but make sure it's a raw data sample ie AIFF or WAV. Compressed samples are not quite so good, particularly MP3 which actually removes wave data as part of the compression and then reinterpolates it at player level. If you must use compression, make sure it is FLAC or another lossless compression algorithm.
I would record at 16 bit 48kHz (DVD quality). That is ultimately what the samples will be played at, so going higher isn't required, but if the recording device is preset to something higher like 24 bit 96kHz don't worry - I can convert it.
The most important thing is recording venue. The room should be as dead as possible so that you are not getting reverberation colouring the sound - a living room with loads of soft furnishings and cushions around would be ideal - or you could make a tent affair out of duvets etc and record inside that.
In reply to I can convert most sample by ChurchOrganist
Awesome! I'll see what I can do. I also have access to bass drums that I could try to record also. At least I'll do my quads with all six drums, rim shots, and skanks, and maybe buzzes.
In reply to I can convert most sample by ChurchOrganist
Would you need each sound as a separate file? Or could I just record all sounds as one file?
In reply to Would you need each sound as by sday88
It would probably be simpler to record as one file, but make sure you have a gap of silence between each sample - a couple of seconds will do.
You would then need to include a list of what the samples are in order. But you could use Audacity to add labels and then save as an Audacity project.
Hey all, I didn't see it discussed here, but is there any way to "fix" the bass drum sounds? To be honest, they sound horrible. The lower the drum, the less audible they actually become, and they just don't have a good marching bass drum tone. I am extremely grateful for Musescore and that it has marching percussion to begin with, but I would really like better bass drum sounds. And maybe add a sixth bass?
In reply to Hey all, I didn't see it by sday88
Have you upgraded to MuseScore 2.0.3?
Apart from Marching Percussion now being included in the default soundfont, many problems with the Marching Bass Drum instruments were fixed, including some key scaling problems which were causing the drums to play at the incorrect pitch, and the release envelope was also fixed so the drums now speak fully whatever note value is selected.
If you have already upgraded to MuseScore 2.0.3 then loss of volume in the lower drums could well be a limitation imposed by your speakers, particularly if you are using a laptop.
Most PC speakers are just not capable for reproducing the full tonal range required for Orchestral and Band playback, being noticeably lacking in bass response.
I have recently purchased a pair of Behringer Studio 50 USB monitors, which has completely transformed the sound I have been getting from MuseScore, and other audio applications.
As to a 6th bass drum - that is not normal according to the information I have, and I would have to be convinced it would be needed by a significant number of users before trying to implement it.
In reply to Have you upgraded to by ChurchOrganist
I just upgraded last night. The sound of the bass drums isn't a problem with my speakers. Maybe I focused my comment too much on "volume" of the playback. The drums just aren't articulate enough. It's like the sound lasts too long or something. Have you ever heard the bass drum sounds from Finale or Sibelius? They have a really nice articulate sound. Especially the Virtual Drumline add on sounds. I think the Musescore bass sounds are also maybe all pitched too low. I don't know, maybe my main problem is just that the sound isn't articulate enough. Sounds like they are inside of a tunnel or something. I guess it is what it is.
No, I guess a 6th bass drum isn't "normal", but would be nice to have. I guess I don't realize how big of an effort it is to program this kind of thing.
Again, I'm extremely grateful for Musescore and the fact that it has marching percussion at all, because it's free. The bass sounds have just always bugged me.
In reply to I just upgraded last night. by sday88
I downloaded the MuseScore and mp3 files from the Drumline Creations page and I definitely hear a difference between what the mp3 sounds like and when I play the score from MuseScore. I tried messing with the mixer and that did nothing. Wondering if there are some other settings that I need to mess with to get the basses to sound better. And I still can't believe it's my computer (I'm using ear buds). The folks that made those mp3 files produced them with the sounds I hear, but the sounds are "bad" when I play them from MuseScore. It just sounds muddy.
So, I opened Bass Cowboy in my MuseScore and then exported the mp3. It does sound comparable, except for the bottom bass. You can barely hear it and everything is still kinda muddy.
In reply to I downloaded the MuseScore by sday88
Ear buds are only suitable for listening to mainstream popular music, which is mixed to sound good on such devices.
Again, you are not getting the full frequency spectrum. You need to invest in either a really good pair of reference quality headphones, or reference quality monitor speakers
However, the bass drum samples are not the best I have ever heard, maybe something to do with the room they were recorded in or the equipment used to record them, but they're what we have.
In reply to Ear buds are only suitable by ChurchOrganist
But like I said, I'm sure that it isn't my earbuds or computer speakers. I downloaded the mp3 files from the Drumline Creations page and they all sound fine listening to them through my earbuds and computer speakers. However, as soon as I play the MuseScore score, they sound horrible, and also when I export to mp3. That is telling me that I may have a/some setting(s) that need adjusted. Exporting to mp3 has nothing to do with the sound I getting from my earbuds or speakers. If whoever created those mp3 files were able to make them sound "decent", why can't I?
In reply to But like I said, I'm sure by sday88
Can you give me a link to the page, so I can listen myself?
In reply to Can you give me a link to the by ChurchOrganist
OK, hopefully this will work. The first file is from the MuseScore Drumline Creations site (https://musescore.com/groups/drumline-creations) that I also uploaded here:
http://yourlisten.com/sday88/basscowboy
And here is the mp3 file that I created from my version of MuseScore:
http://yourlisten.com/sday88/basscowboy-sd
It's mainly that bottom bass sound that is just horrible. It's almost inaudible. It's got to be something with my settings.
In reply to OK, hopefully this will work. by sday88
Hmm I see what you mean about that bottom bass drum.
I wonder if you have an old soundfont version on your system causing this.
Can you post a screen shot of your Synthesiser page?
In reply to Hmm I see what you mean about by ChurchOrganist
So, here's my synthesizer page.
In reply to So, here's my synthesizer by sday88
As I thought - that is an old version of the soundfont you have there,
You should remove that and revert to the default soundfont, which now has all the Marching percussion instruments included.
The simplest way would be to do a "Reset to factory defaults"......
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/revert-factory-settings
But that would clear out any custom palettes, key shortcuts etc you have made.
SO the alternative would be to download and install the latest version either in SF3 or SF2 format from its repository in my Google Drive.......
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7cZM0RQwkwST2tiWWFiaTN0WFE
You will always find the latest version there - the SF2 version is always up to date. The SF3 version is not updated quite so often.
The version you have was produced before a problem with key-scaling was identified in MuseScore's version of FluidSynth - the latest version works around this problem, also fixes problems with the release phase of the amplitude envelope, and allows the bass drums to speak properly.
HTH
In reply to As I thought - that is an old by ChurchOrganist
Sweet! That worked. Thanks!
Posted in wrong place.
Bless your souls and all the drum line/ quad folks who have pushed this notation, it really helps us poor struggling drum set types.
I have a question (s) if anyone has experience or can point me to the correct page in the help. I would like to edit Measure Properties, layout stretch for multiple measures at one time, is this possible?
Also is it possible to edit the font and or size in the header once a score is saved? I add lots of notation in the header and footer and need to minimize the real-estate used.
Thank you all,
ST
In reply to Bless your souls and all the by Scott Trevethan
To change stretch, simply select the measures and press "{" to decrease or "}" increase. You will see these shortcuts listed for the corresponding commands in the Layout menu.
Font sizes are controlled in Style / Text. Click the specific style you wish to customize in the list on left, then make whatever changes you like in the area to the right. There are styles ofr Header and Footer, also for Title, Subtitle, etc.
This has now been opened as an Official feature request in the issue tracker.
#109826: Add 2nd spock drum to Marching Percussion Tenor instrument and clean up amplitude envelopes
Specific technical posts such as the proviision of new samples should be made there.
In reply to This has now been opened as by ChurchOrganist
You can check on the latest progress here....
https://musescore.org/en/node/109826#comment-514031
Along with a second spock, a 6th bass drum could occasionally prove useful. I think that one would be notated in the space below the bottom line (for an XXL bottom drum).
In reply to Along with a second spock, a by duck57
As noted here https://musescore.org/en/node/105141#comment-485086, I will take a great deal of convincing to add a 6th bass drum which as far as I can see is not generally used in competition drumline.
Once it becomes the standard then, given the samples, it could be done.