Transpose staff - trumpet to saxo
Hi
I'm a new user of musescore software and enjoying fanstastic stuff from community.
I woud like to play the track "lemaitre - closer" with my son : me at bass, my son at saxophone alto.
Since many days, I'm tring to transpose this partition https://musescore.com/user/3697841/scores/2368021
I think I successfully convert the "baryton sax" staff to bass in this way :
- Select the Baryton sax staff completly
- Note -> Transpose -> By tone : C Major (DO Majeur)
- Right click on staff -> staff property
- Change instrument : Electric Bass
- Edition -> Instrument : For the Bass staff, change type to "tab simple 4 chords"
The shown notes on the TAB seems to be the right one compare to "piano roll"
Does it make sense for you ?
Now, I'm tryin to convert the "trumpet staff" to saxo alto (Eb).
Should I do same step (exact TAB staff view) ?
thanks for help :)
Comments
That's a lot of extra work :-). Easiest way to transpose: right click the staff, Staff Properties, Change Instrument, select new instrument. This gets the sound as well. But the above works too.
In reply to That's a lot of extra work by Marc Sabatella
Hi
thanks for answer but there is big difference.
If I don't transpose before changing instrument, the TAB is wrong (doesn't match right notes).
You can see difference here :
![transpo.png]( "transpo.png")
In reply to Hi thanks for answer but by predou
Hmm, it's not really clear what you mean here. Can you attach the actual score - not just a picture - and give precise steps to reproduce the problem?
In reply to Hmm, it's not really clear by Marc Sabatella
hi Mark
The score is here : https://musescore.com/user/3697841/scores/2368021
The problem is to convert a staff that is for instrument in B minor to standard instrument C major.
In reply to hi Mark The score is here : by predou
There appears to be some misunderstanding of terminology. Music for certain instruments is written at a different pitch than the sounding ('concert') pitch. These so-called 'transposing' instruments are said to be 'in' certain pitch names, such as D, F, E-flat or B-flat, but, they are never referred to as being in a key such as 'B minor' or 'c major'.
That score you linked to was apparently assembled by the user from another user's version. It has been transposed from some other key into d minor. It contains an alto sax part already (notated correctly in b minor); it also contains a poorly-notated three-trumpet staff (which appears to have been copy-pasted from the piano right hand in the earlier version).
I have changed the baritone sax part to electric bass and shown it as a tab staff; the trumpet staff I have changed to Alto sax. I left the original alto sax staff and the percussion staff alone.
In reply to There appears to be some by Recorder485
thank you recorder485 :)
Yes, I'm lost with "transposing instrument".
So, in fact, I didn't need to transpose ? Just to switch instrument on staff property ?
Also, on the saxophone (transformed from trumpet), it's quite high.
To decrease from an octav, I can transpose the notes "by internal - octav" ?
thanks for time both
In reply to thank you recorder485 :) Yes, by predou
The point is, the baritone part is *already* transposed as appropriate for that instrument. Saxophones and trumepts both require transposed music, but MuseScore handles this for you. Even though the first note of your score *looks* like a "B" for baritone saxophone, it actually *sounds* like D and octave and a sixth lower. That is how music for baritone saxophones works, and MuseScore handles this automatically. You can see for yourself what the *sounding* pitch is by turning on the "Concert Pitch" option using the button on the right hand side of the main toolbar, but you can't give that music to a baritone saxophone player - he needs the transposed version because his instrument really does sound different from what is written. When you use "Change Instrument" to change to bass (or any other instrument), MuseScore will automatically fix the transposition as appropriate. This *includes* getting the octave right. However, a bass sounds even lower than a baritone saxophone, so sure, there might be a few places where you decidee some passage for baritone saxophone would sound better on bass if you lowered it an additional octave.
In reply to thank you recorder485 :) Yes, by predou
Right. As Marc explained, you don't need to transpose anything because the required difference between written pitch and sounding pitch for each 'transposing' instrument is already built into MuseScore. The programmers have done all that work for you.
To drop a phrase (or note) one octave, select the material and type the keyboard shortcut CTL + DOWN ARROW.
In reply to So, in fact, I didn't need to by Recorder485
thanks a million both :)
In reply to hi Mark The score is here : by predou
Yes, it still isn't clear what you actually tried to do - this score doesn't contain tablature so you must have added it later, and I don't know which instrument you started from since there is no such thing as an "instrument in B minor". Can you describe more precisely, step by step, what you are doing and why?
My best guess is that you are trying to take the baritone saxophone part and generate bass tablature for it. If so, simply change the instrument to bass (Staff Properties / Change Instrument), then change the staff type to tablature (Edit / Instruments). You'll see it is all handled correctly. The first note "B" for baritone saxophone correctly gets turned into a "D" for bass (because baritone saxophone sounds an octave and a sixth lower than written), and this then correctly gets turned into 7th fret "G" string for bass (since that is the correct octave).
very helpful explanation
thanks mark
I would love to find references ... please ... to a discussion of how these instruments actually work from the point-of-view of the composer. For instance, I wrote a scratch part for an “Alto Clarinet” because the SoundFont sounds nice, and because I do know that players can play in that range of notes. What I don’t know is, how would “a real player holding a wooden tube in his hands” react to what I have written?
What should govern my choice, as a composer, of which [clarinet ...] instrument to choose for a particular part? References to outside web-page resources welcomed.
In reply to I would love to find by mrobinson
What you are asking is how to orchestrate or arrange a piece of music, and that is a rather large question. It is, in fact, a college- or conservatory-level subject in its grandest sense, but that does not mean you can't learn some of the basic rules on your own with the help of a couple of good textbooks and some patience.
The most comprehensive all-around text on the subject that I know is Alfred Blatter's Instrumentation and Orchestration . It contains all the information you could possibly want on virtually every standard orchestral instrument, including ranges, fingering charts, suggestions on using the various parts of each instrument's range for particular effects, and warnings of what composers should NOT ask players of each instrument to do. Since no composer can play every instrument, a reference book of this nature is a basic necessity in any composer's library. (Note: There are a number of different editions of Blatter available; the one in that link is the 1980 edition, which is substantially less expensive than the 1997 edition that I use.)
Another work, one which focuses on orchestration more than on instrumentation, is Rimsky-Korsakov's classic treatise Principles of Orchestration . This book will give you a very good grounding in how to use a symphony orchestra as a musical instrument, even if your particular interest is not in late romantic or early contemporary music. It is full of musical examples from R-K's own works; studying them with patience will help you learn why and how good composers orchestrate things the way they do.
Finally, no general textbook can replace an evaluation of what you've written by a qualified player. If you've written something for alto sax, for instance, try to find a good alto sax player and ask him to look over your part and let you know what he thinks of it from the performer's perspective.
In reply to What you are asking is how to by Recorder485
The Rimsky-Korsakoff is public domain: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33900/33900-h/33900-h.htm
In reply to I would love to find by mrobinson
The simple ianswer is, select Alto Clarinet from the instrument list, go to your score, make sure Concert Pitch is turned *on* so you are entering notes at sounding rather than written pitch, and enter the music as you want it to sound. When you are done, turn concert pitch back off and the music is automatically changed to how it would need to be written in order to sound like you want.
As for what should govern your choice, well, know that alto clarinet is not a very common instrument. If you are writing for a professional orchestea, you can count on someone having one, otherwise, you might ewant ot consider something else just for the sake of practicality.