Create custom barline
I wish there were a double barline to begin a staff - (heavy line then light line) just like with a repeat section signs. I have figured out how to create custom time signatures and custom key signatures but not custom barlines.
Ancillary to that, I also wish it were possible to begin a staff with a single bar line that separates the music notes from the key signature. So it would look like: key sig signs - barline - notes. This is exactly what happens when you put a beginning repeat section barline at the start of a staff - it would be so nice to have the same thing happen with a single or a double bar line.
Thank you all...
Comments
You *can* begin a system with a double barline - just click the system barline, then double click the double bar icon in the palette. Or drag & drop.
Not sure I understand the second request. This doesn't sound like anything that happens in standard music notation. Can you explain in more detail - ideally illustrated with an image taken from published music? But anyhow, you *can* put barlines anywhere you like. Just click the note you want it to appear before, then double click the appropriate icon in the palette. Or drag & drop.
In reply to You *can* begin a system with by Marc Sabatella
Hello Marc!
Thank you for your quick reply!
Attached is an old, hand-drawn chart to illustrate what I am hoping for in terms of barline types and placement.
The first staff has a typical repeat section beginning barline - double bars, one being heavier than the other with the double dots.
The next staff, being part of the repeated section, begins with a single bar line but the placement is between the key signature signs and the notes themselves. I wish I could place beginning barlines like this in MuseScore.
The third staff is the type of double line that I would like to create - heavy line followed by a light line. MuseScore already offers its compatriot ending double barline.
Does this help clarify my original posting?
How can I decide placement of the barlines and how can I create a left-side double beginning barline as is shown in my sample?
Thank you!!
In reply to Hello Marc! Thank you for by I am Terran
It does clarify. I would say whomever wrote that out was just not very familiar with the rules of music notation (they also seem to misunderstand how key signatures work). No sense in reproducing their mistakes. But if for whatever reason you decide you want to recreate this non-standard notation, the method I described earlier should suffice. Only thing is that since you also want a non-standard barline (the one with the thick part on the left) you'll need to grab that form the Symbols palette instead of the Barlines palette. Press "Z" to display that.
But unless you are contractually obligatedobligate to reproduce this exact non-standard notation, you are much better off not.
In reply to It does clarify. I would say by Marc Sabatella
Hello Marc,
As you suggested, I was able to find the particular barline type I sought in the Symbols section of the Master Palette that comes up when "z" is pressed. I appreciate your helping me get to that - thank you!
I also discovered that MuseScore gives the barline type a name, "Reverse final barline". Which means, of course, I am not the only person who is interested in using this type of "non-standard" formatting. Therefore, I think it ought to be included in the barlines palette instead of having to resort to a less obvious workaround.
A couple of things - I created that sample. Please understand that just because the way I use barlines is non-standard does not make my usages a "mistake" or otherwise invalid.
Frankly, I find many "standardized" music notation "rules" miss (or even ignore) a basic point about writing music down on paper: clarity. That is, the physical / visual structure of sheet music should ease the musician's job of understanding the composer's intentions.
Moreover, just because an existing practice is common does not mean that one should not try to innovate nor does common practice rule out or invalidate attempts to make written music more visually comprehensible. If you look back over the history of sheet music, I think it is clear that we have come a long ways from the early days. The only way we have gotten to where we are is by some folks stepping outside of the traditional forms and rules.
For example, I make it a point to look at the mega structure of a piece so when I set it to paper I can start each section at the beginning of a staff, especially when that section repeats. The same goes for putting four bars per staff when a section has eight bars to it. This stands in contrast to the industry practice of squeezing in as many bars per staff as is possible. Which results in visual abominations where staff A might have ten bars and the following staff only have two bars.
All of the above is admittedly non-standard practice. However, over my 37 year career I have found that when playing a wedding with a new musician who does not know my repertoire, a chart that makes it easy to discern each section and the structure of the tune at a glance can be a life saver.
And those Reverse Final Barlines make the job of seeing non-repeating section beginnings that much easier especially since those sections do not begin with a repeat sign.
I know that the university music departments churn out young musicians who claim with lots of bravado that they have no problem reading a chart that squeezes as many bars on a staff as is possible to save paper, the industry standard practice, if commercially available sheet music is any guide. But that practice obfuscates structural things. Which is NOT good practice on a sight-reading gig.
Bottom line: I go for visual clarity rather than following the "rules."
As for my not understanding the key signatures, the key signature in my sample IS the proper way of indicating that particular Balkan scale in that key - Ab and Eb but with a natural B. The B natural is NOT treated as an accidental. (Even though I always, for the sake of newer players less familiar with that key signature, indicate throughout the chart those notes in the way seen on the sample despite the key signature appearing at the beginning of each staff.)
Again, on a job, clarity wins over the "rules."
As for separating the key signature from the first bar by the use of a barline, doing so highlights the key signature. This usage is akin to indicating the coming key signature when shifting from one key to another by tagging on the new signature at the end of the staff or wherever it falls between the old key and the new key.
My usage draws further attention to the "unusual" nature of the key signature. Besides, it isn't all that different, really, from what happens in MuseScore when a repeat sign begins a staff: the key sig is separated from the bar by the repeat sign.
If one staff begins with a repeat sign, why not make the first bar of the subsequent staff visually line up with the bar that follows the repeat sign? Regularity in layout makes the structure of the piece more evident. The more the eye has to jump around, the longer it takes to comprehend the music.
So, again, and for visual purposes, clarity over "rules".
At any rate, I really do appreciate your speedy assistance - you clearly understand MuseScore better than I, as a very new user, do. Your guidance has helped me get over a stumbling block, for which I am grateful. I hope that if I need assistance in the future that you will offer help.
In reply to Hello Marc, As you suggested, by I am Terran
Sorry, I wasn't aware you were deliberately trying to create an experimental notation system. You said this was an old handwritten manuscript, so I just assumed you were trying to blindly copy what you were seeing and that deviations from standard notation in the original were not deliberate. My mistake. And yes, I will definitely continue to offer help.
Anyhow
- Yes, clarity is important. And, for example, organizing things to put new sections at the beginning of lines is a common practice that does help clarity without introducing anything non-standard, and MuseScore completely supports this. But it is also important to realize, musicians are used to reading music a certain way. Deviating from the standard creates confusion. In a few cases here and there it might be worth it - some gain to be had - but I personally don't see any particular advantage here. There are people who do put special barlines at the beginnings of systems, but they go *before* the key signature, not after. So even though its non-standard, it's at least fairly common, so MuseScore *does* support that. MuseScore is in the business of *automatically* supporting things are standard, and making it relatively easy to do things that are non-standard but common. Things that are non-standard and *uncommon* are going to require a little more work, that's just to be expected.
- It's certainly conceivable we might add the reverse final barline to the palette. but realize, there are literally *thousands* of symbols available not on the palettes. We can't add them all - they would become too cluttered. So we prioritize the ones actually in common use, or commonly requested. As as as I can recall yours is the first request for this particular symbol in the six years I've been involved with MuseScore. If others start requesting this, or are able to show evidence it is in common usage, it will increase the likelihood of it being included. So feel free to try drumming up support for this among other users, showing examples of it in published music, etc.