Symphonic version of MDL
Exactly what it sounds like. Instruments like concert snare, concert bass drum, cymbals, rattle, triangle; each playing as realistically as the MDL marching percussion.
Exactly what it sounds like. Instruments like concert snare, concert bass drum, cymbals, rattle, triangle; each playing as realistically as the MDL marching percussion.
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In creating MDL, the original intent was that it would grow to expand to cover the wider range of percussion instruments as time goes on.
In reply to In creating MDL, the… by Daniel
The first three important instruments would be timpani, concert bass drum, and cymbals. After those are done, triangle, side drum, tam-tam, and small drum should come next. There quite a lot of other orchestral percussion instruments but these seven should come first.
In reply to The first three important… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
100% agree with you. My next priority after this would be latin/world percussion.
In reply to 100% agree with you. My next… by Daniel
Would it be possible for drum rolls to be triggered by the trill line?
I see this in quite a lot of scores.
In reply to Would it be possible for… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
Me too.
In reply to Would it be possible for… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
This particular request sets off a very interesting philosophical discussion, but I will simply just try to provide a bit of insight into how I have been thinking about this challenge and how it has been approached so far with MDL.
Percussion notation has historically lacked definitive standards. The same thing has been notated in so many different ways, making things quite confusing for performers. Marching percussion has been even more varied than other forms, simply because it is newer and has evolved at a much faster pace.
With MDL initially focused on marching percussion, it was important for there to be a very clear notation standard. Not only to improve clarity for the performer and to simplify playback, but consistency and compatibility when source files of scores are shared.
Adding an additional layer to this and creating a greater need for clarity is the playback aspect of MuseScore.
Keeping all of these points in mind, the MDL Notation Guide was created - https://musescore.com/user/29165763/sets
It was intended that a similar approach would be taken when expanding MDL to the wider range of percussion instruments. But this also raises the question of transcriptions of historical works.\
The philosophical question here concerns the goal of recreating the notation style of the original (or closer to original) publications vs. adapting to notate according to more common current practices.
This particular case of notation of a trill for a roll is a clear example. While trill and tremolo have been used interchangeably in scores historically, they actually have a different meaning.
In the purest sense, these can be interpreted very distinctly.
A tremolo would be used for rolls with a double bounce stroke and distinct separation between the notes, while a trill would be used to indicate multiple bounce rolls that are more sustained and connected.
BUT... historically speaking, this distinction was not entirely universal or entirely understood, so the result is notation where what is on the page may actually be different than composer intent. In addition to this, some publishers would treat these as entirely synonymous and would adopt a single house style for one or the other, often actually changing the composer intent.
Again, this is a much larger discussion, but in this context I would certainly suggest to add this, but with a distinct separation of meaning between the two forms, as well as different sound in playback.
Back to the the broader and more philosophical discussion of how to approach the notation when transcribing old works.
While there is certainly no clear answer here, I personally believe that many publishers have historically published some percussion parts inaccurately or out of sync with composer intent when either forcing a house style or when work was done by someone with less knowledge of the specifics of percussion. Adding to this is variance in practices across different periods or geographies to where what composer actually wrote may not be interpreted as what they actually meant.
So, this ambiguity does set up the clear need for a definitive standard and I personally feel that it is less important to recreate the notation style of historical publishers than it is to try to discover the original intent and present in a modern way that would be more universally understood and consistently performed.
In reply to This particular request sets… by Daniel
With all of that said, just make the trill roll sound like you think it should sound. If the user doesn't like it they can change it (through some sort of workaround). Any roll is better than the single thud that we currently get.
In reply to With all of that said, just… by mike320
Currently MDL supports only marching percussion and both this notation and technique are not used in this style of drumming.
We should definitely support this as we add concert drums to MDL.
In reply to This particular request sets… by Daniel
Cecil Forsyth actually claims the reasoning for using the trill line for tremolo in his book: https://www.scribd.com/document/298140213/Forsyth-Orchestration1914
The basic idea is that the trill line can span multiple measures.
I actually notate with it. It's not about historical purposes for me.
In reply to Cecil Forsyth actually… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
Forsyth makes some very great arguments and does break it down well. I hadn't read his stuff much since university and now revisiting his writing along with the other great standards on orchestration like Rimsky-Korsakov, etc.
On this very specific topic, here is an interesting article from Bill Cahn (percussion professor at Eastman, member of Nexus).
http://nexuspercussion.com/2016/02/about-notation-for-snare-drum-rolls/
In putting together MDL so far, the deeper we got into it, the more I realized I had to learn. :-)
I have been consulting a bit with Samuel Solomon (percussion professor at Boston Conservatory, Juilliard, Tanglewood Institute) who is author of a great book on percussion notation - How to Write for Percussion - A Comprehensive Guide to Percussion Composition - https://global.oup.com/academic/product/how-to-write-for-percussion-978…
I hope to engage him more in this process as we move forward with concert percussion, as he is truly an expert in this area.
In reply to Forsyth makes some very… by Daniel
Speaking of the Forsyth book, I would really love it if all the sounds mentioned in the percussion section were made available.
In reply to 100% agree with you. My next… by Daniel
After the seven, I would do the rattle, castanets, piccolo drum, toms, anvil, wind machine, guiro, sleigh bells, congas, and finger cymbals.
Just pointing this out, the Philharmonia Orchestra has quite a bit of percussion samples on their website. These samples could possibly be used.
In reply to Just pointing this out, the… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
Thanks for the tip! They have some great samples.
In reply to Thanks for the tip! They… by Daniel
I believe the University of Iowa also has good samples.
https://musescore.org/en/node/274616