How Do I Ungroup/Uncombine Grouped/Combined Parts After Import
I was enjoying Musescore before I ran into this problem.
After I imported a midi file, Musescore joined tracks in a way that seems impossible to separate. These were obviously 6 different tracks ( screenshot below) in my .mid file.
Two of the older suggestions for fixing this cite broken documentation. I cannot seem to select an entire staff's worth of notes, nor is the new from existing functionality there. Because this is a fast piece, there's quite a few pages, so manually selecting and pasting does not seem practical.
I found a way to split the part by pitch, but that's not what I want to do. I can delete the braces and instrument name, but the joined/combined quagmire remains.
I guess that the thing that's really upsetting about this: I never asked Musescore to do this. There is no import options that I can see for disabling this.
Audacity can split a stereo track in just a few clicks.
Thanks,
BrendaEM
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Comments
It's easier to help if you attach the actual score - or in this case the MIDI file you started from - rather than just a picture. My guess is it will turn out you've used the same channel number for each par of tracks.
To select all notes on a staff, simply click the first measure of the staff to select it, then press Cltr+Shift+End.
In reply to It's easier to help if you… by Marc Sabatella
I tried that; it didn't work.
They are imported into the Musescore importer as separate tracks into the Midi track manager, but then they are ruthlessly paired in the score editor. Is there no simple other way to split these?
It's like the person who wrote the code to pair them, went to great lengths to make sure the user would not unpair/uncombine them.
In this case, it would be unlikely that I would uploaded an uncopyrighted unfinished piece for public examination. That's why I posted a screenshot.
Thank you for the reply.
In reply to I tried that; it didn't work… by BrendaEM
What went wrong when you tried? I can't think of anything that could possibly prevent it from working if you follow those instructions.
Again in order to do more than guess at the problems, we need the actual score / MIDI file. It doesn't matter if your piece is finished or not, it is protected by copyright law the moment you write it, and in any event, no one is combing these support forums looking for music to steal. But if you remain concerned, just cut your file down to a smaller excerpt.
In reply to I tried that; it didn't work… by BrendaEM
Also...
How did your "uncopyrighted unfinished piece" wind up as MIDI?
Was it notated originally in a different scorewriting app and then exported from that app as MIDI and you now wish to edit it using MuseScore?
If yes, see:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/file-formats#share-with-other-softw…
(MIDI is not the ideal format for swapping files among different notation apps. Exporting/importing as MusicXML is recommended.)
In reply to Also... How did your … by Jm6stringer
I wrote the piece in another software (Reason), which I no longer own.
Well, my honesty is being questioned because I want to prevent Musescore from automatically joining two different imported tracks?! Is this how guests and members are usually treated on this forum? Speaking of tracks, let's not get derailed her. Please stay on topic.
Anyway, I uploaded the truncated file. Because it was a techno/trance tune, much of the piece's work was done through timbre changes, so, now without those changes, I have too much redundancy. Still, there are some salvageable themes and motifs that I want to practice on the guitar, using the Musescore's improved play sidebar. The piece needs to be rewritten and shortened. Presently, it's quite unwieldy in the editor as far as cutting and pasting tracks/staves.
It's also not apparent how to add a part/stave, but I am going to keep looking. Wait, it was under the File menu?
And, apparently, I am not smart enough to learn how to add a track in Musescore.
In reply to Well, my honesty is being… by BrendaEM
To be clear: I for one am not questioning your honesty. I think probably there was some sort of misunderstanding. But in any case, I don't see the uploaded file here. I'm guessing you uploaded a score somewhere else like musescore.com, but really, as I said, really we need the MIDI file to understand what happened during import, and right here in a response is the place to attach it, using the File Attachments link right below where you type your response.
As for adding parts, MuseScore is not a sequencer, so don't think in terms of "tracks". Instead, think in terms of instruments and staves. Instruments and staves are added and removed using Edit / Instruments. Once upon a time it was under Add, but since the same dialog is used for removing, it made more sense to put these in Edit.
In reply to To be clear: I for one am… by Marc Sabatella
I am sorry that I forgot the file.
In reply to I am sorry that I forgot the… by BrendaEM
OK, but as I said, in order to understand why it imported the way it did, we need the MIDI file. With the score, though, I can at least guarantee that selecting the entire staff works as advertised. Select first measure, Shift+Ctrl+End, it's selected. Ctrl+C it's copied. Add an instrument using Edit / Instruments, then select the first measure and Ctrl+V, it's pasted. Takes only a few seconds.
FWIW, though, this doesn't seem to be the same score as the screenshot - that one involved cellos etc, this one is all synths. If the MIDI file was using synth sounds, then it's definitely believable MuseScore would have tried to see related tracks as coming from one instrument by default.
In reply to OK, but as I said, in order… by Marc Sabatella
I will have to work on truncating the midi file. From the screenshot, it cannot be determined what I want to do?
The midi converter loads 6 separate tracks, and then ties them together in an inseparable way?
Yesterday, I tried renaming them in two different ways--in Reaper, and exporting them; Musecore paired the tracks all the same. I even tried giving them numbers, so there would be no cheating, but Musescore paired them.
Using the help pages and looking at the menu, I was not able figure out how to add parts. Those that are there are locked together, as well. It was not obvious to me what effect adding part has in the menus. I've only used Reaper, Reason, Audacity, Cubase, Soundforge, and a few other music programs, and three tab editors, so you have to go easy on me.
Please don't mistake my sardonic for sarcasm. Sigh.
It should seem reasonable that if the Midi instruments are separate and have different names, then I want them loaded as separate parts, but it's like the neighbor's kind who expects to paid for painting your garage black when you never asked him.
There's some user interface issues, but Musescore is still pretty cool. Thank you.
In reply to I will have to work on… by BrendaEM
You can separate the staves as explained, we don’t need the MIDI file to help with that. The explanation I have works perfectly, I tried it, took about 10 seconds. It’s true though that sometimes it can be hard to find things in the Handbook - especially if one is looking for sequencer terminology rather than notation. But luckily there is free and very fast help available right here! And you’re welcome to contribute your skills to improving the Handbook - line the software itself, it is open source too.
Anyhow, the point of providing the MIDI file is to understand how this happened - why MuseScore thinks these tracks should be combined. And then we could possible show you how to use the MIDI import panel to avoid the problem in the future. Or failing that, show you how to export the MIDI differently from the software you used so it would not fool MuseScore into thinking the Amtrak’s were for different hands of a a keyboard instrument. Once it is saved as a score, it’s too late to change the MIDI import process, but many options exist before that point. Seeing the MIDI file would be needed to assist further.
In reply to You can separate the staves… by Marc Sabatella
I wrote documentation professionally. Someone cannot write documentation for something they haven't either learned or designed.
As a new user, I have no idea how the part menu works. The documentation is quite different than the new version. It would seem that I want to create 6 new parts, and cut and paste the inseparable parts I have into the new ones? Using this menu? With no documentation?
In the Midi Import Panel, I have the option to split the staff/staves, but it appears only to split them by pitch.
I was able to copy and paste one part. I was getting fouled up because it took some experimentation to discover the hit-point to select a measure. Thank you for the suggestion.
Before reworking this piece, there are 156 pages of score here; that's what should be attacked : )
I think there should be an option to split the score after import. My piece has only 6 instruments/parts, but cutting and pasting larger works would be disorienting and therefor an error-prone process to many users with larger peices.
In reply to I wrote documentation… by BrendaEM
There is documentation, it just apparently wasn't clear enough for you. From the main Handbook page, just scroll down *the topics are alphabetic) until you find "Parts". The only change I am aware of made to the dialog that isn't in the Handbook is that "New All" and "New" have been renamed "All Parts" and "Single Part" respectively, but the behavior hasn't changed in quite some time. So, I recommend studying it further, then if you have ideas for how it could be improved, go for it!
As for the MIDI file, again, we really cannot help from just a picture. We need the MIDI file itself to understand what specifically is going on that is causing it to be perceived as three instruments of two staves each instead of six separate instruments as you expect. As I said, my best guess is that it is duplicating channel numbers. In which case, if you can't fix that at the receiving end, one easy possibility is to just reorder the tracks within the import panel. The precise steps we cannot say without seeing the file, though.
In reply to There is documentation, it… by Marc Sabatella
For the record though, to fix the score after import, I personally would have added only three new instruments - not parts, as I said, the dialog you want is Edit / Instruments. Parts are for extracting individual parts from a full score. Anyhow, once you add the three new instruments, copy and paste from the lower staff of each existing instrument into one of the new ones, then go back to Edit / Instruments to delete those now-unneeded bottom staves. Shouldn't take more than a minute total. but again, starting over the MIDI, you could probably circumvent the issue in seconds by reordering the tracks, or prevent it from ever occurring again by fixing how you assign channel numbers to your tracks in your sequencer.
In reply to There is documentation, it… by Marc Sabatella
Tuxguitar, Reaper, and obviously Reason had not trouble with this exact midi file.
In the Instruments menu, we can "Add a Linked Staff" Perhaps that is a good place to also put a button to unlink them.
In reply to Tuxguitar, Reaper, and… by BrendaEM
Tuxguitar, Reaper, and obviously Reason had not trouble with this exact midi file.
Yet another reason to share that MIDI file with use then; so we can inspect and possibly fix or handle it in the future. Non of that will happen without the example file in question though...
In reply to Tuxguitar, Reaper, and… by jeetee
No one will update the documentation unless I share a work-in-progress musical work that I have neither copyrighted nor finished?
No one will add the functionality to split two tracks that should have never been loaded in the first place?
In reply to No one will update the… by BrendaEM
You are welcome to improve the documentation with or without updating a MIDI. But right now it still isn’t clear to anyone else what aspect of the documentation you read and found unclear. If you were reading about Parts hoping to find more info about Instruments or Staves, maybe you could just add a pointer to the relevant page now that you know the proper term.
As for what should or should not have been combined, again, without the MIDI we cannot say. It’s a feature that adjacent tracks with the same channel and a keyboard sound will be combined. But if that was not the case, we need the MIDI to understand how the algorithm - which normally works extremely well, as evidence by the fact that you are the only person I can recall reporting an issue in the last several years since we last
Improved it - was fooled. And as for a workaround to override this in the cases of such files, I already mentioned this is likely already possible using the import panel. We just cannot be more specific about the steps without the MIDI file.
But as I said, best is probably to correct the errors the source - your sequencer’s MIDI output - by using better channel assignments. I get that other sequencers that are based on tracks wouldn’t be smart enough to combine adjacent tracks using the same channel and sound, and so the problem wouldn’t be noticed. But any notation program worth using probably would combine tracks in this case. Otherwise you’d get people complaining their piano MIDI’s showed up as separate instruments for left and right hands.
In reply to You are welcome to improve… by Marc Sabatella
My working theory is: the reason why the importer hasn't been improved upon in years, I don't think anyone could admit there's a problem with it.
Well it looks like these people had to do the old cut and paste job that no one has asked for in years:
https://musescore.org/en/node/273487
https://musescore.org/en/node/283630
https://musescore.org/en/node/289987
ad nauseam.
No, I don't think that a piano would normally be imported because it's one instrument. The problem is: Musescore's importer doesn't accept that two instruments are really two.
In reply to My working theory is: the… by BrendaEM
I’m happy to consider the possibility there is is some sort of problem, but without a MIDI file to test, we cannot begin to investigate. Those other threads are about unrelated situations, not MIDI related at all but about multiple voices and other issues. And we helped them all solve the problems they were having. We’re happy to do the same for you.
Look, I’m trying hard to help you here. I’ve told you as much as I can guess about what is happening. It’s up to you if you want us to assist further or not.
In reply to No one will update the… by BrendaEM
And again, your work is already copyright protected according to law in virtually every country on earth - the Berne convention guarantees this. No separate step is required.
And as we’ve also explained, we don’t need the whole files. Just an excerpt that allows us to see the track names, channel assignments, and program numbers used.
In reply to And again, your work is… by Marc Sabatella
People put copyrights on photos, but that usually doesn't stop anyone from scraping them off of the internet. You are likely protected by your credit card issuer, by your example you are safe to post your credit card numbers--right? Anyway...
I came to this forum to ask for help with an actual repeatable bug/deficiency in the importer. Even the initial screenshot I posted illustrates the problem. The larger problem apparently is: admitting that there is a problem.
I am deeply sorry that I brought such disharmony to your forum.
In reply to People put copyrights on… by BrendaEM
We're all working to figure out what the problem is so that it can be fixed. I'm a user like you and I'd also like to help.
You initially posted a screen shot of the first four measures of your score as imported by MuseScore. Are you able to edit the source MIDI down to the same four measures and post that here as well? That may be all we need to figure out how to fix the problem you're having, and it won't require you to share any more of your music than you already have.
In reply to People put copyrights on… by BrendaEM
I came to this forum to ask for help with an actual repeatable bug/deficiency in the importer.
Except that I don't have the means to repeat/reproduce the bug and when so far 3 contributors have asked your aid so they can also reproduce it and thus, possibly fix it, every time your response so far has seemingly been unwilling.
The screenshot does not illustrate the problem; it illustrates the end result of a problem. We're not even questioning that there could be a problem here, we're only asking for your help in reproducing it.
In reply to I came to this forum to ask… by jeetee
Let's say you have a problem with your car. You call a repair shop and hold you phone up to the car as it is running. You say "Do you hear that? what's wrong and can you fix it over the phone?"
The shop says, "Sorry, we need to have the car in our shop so that we can find and fix the problem."
Go figure :-)
Standard trouble-shooting procedure for any type of problem requires ALL possible information. Users don't always understand this. People who are the ones responsible for trying to fix stuff, do understand. They are the ones who get in trouble when they have to guess because they didn't have everything they needed :-)
In reply to Let's say you have a problem… by bobjp
I am not posting my work. At some point, guess I could load the file into something else, but the problem has so strongly been nutabugged, why would be the point?
In reply to Let's say you have a problem… by bobjp
Are you putting things in car metaphors because you know I was an assistant auto-fabricator at a replica race-car company? But, if you could tell that, then how come you didn't know just how many bug reports I've filled out on other open-source projects?
In reply to Are you putting things in… by BrendaEM
Not a metaphor. I've people do that. But if I have to explain it, then the point is lost.
In reply to I came to this forum to ask… by jeetee
That's incorrect. The screenshot does indeed clearly illustrate 2 parts that were either grouped or combined on import, depending on your terminology. If the contributors didn't understand the problem, then why post workarounds? It doesn't ring true.
The problem is by design, and I suspect that that design is strongly being defended here. I can't fight city hall.
In reply to That's incorrect. The… by BrendaEM
The screen shot shows the end result of the problem. In order to identify and fix the problem we need to see the starting point, which is the source MIDI file (or at least a heavily truncated version of it).
How and why did the two parts gets grouped or combined on import? We don't know. We would like to figure it out. Please help us help you.
In reply to That's incorrect. The… by BrendaEM
If in fact the adjacent tracks use the same channels and are defined as using keyboard sounds - that's the part we cannot know without seeing the file - then indeed, it's by design, because that is the configuration that would normally be used for left & right hand of a keyboard part. If you intend them to be separate instruments, normally you would not use the same channel.
I emphasize that this combining behavior only applies to tracks that are using keyboard sounds - adjacent tracks using the same channel will not be combined if the sound is, say, violin.
So yes, again, assuming this is what is happening with your particular MIDI file, it's by design. I truly believe that if you take a step back and think about this, you will in the end agree it's a very sensible design. The only adjacent tracks that combined in this way are ones using keyboard sounds, and only if they use the same channel number. These are combined because that is specifically how left & right hands of a keyboard part are often represented. And there really isn't a good reason to use the same channel number for adjacent tracks that you don't intend to represent the same instrument. So it really handles the vast majority of MIDI files perfectly.
In the rare cases of MIDI files that are using adjacent keyboard tracks with the same channel but are not intended to represent left & right hand of a single instrument, results will indeed not be as expected. I still say the best solution is to fix the channel numbers in the MIDI file. But as I've mentioned, you can also correct the problem on import by reordering the tracks in the MIDI import panel so the ones with the same channel number are not adjacent (then reorder them back via Edit / Instruments) or add new instruments and copy paste. Neither method takes more than a few extra seconds, for a problem that almost never comes up.
In reply to No one will update the… by BrendaEM
Delete and share all but the first (or first two) measure(s) in the MIDI file.
Not all the notes in the MIDI file are required to understand what happened.
I think it's enough if only Track / channel definitions (and few measures) remain.
In reply to There is documentation, it… by Marc Sabatella
(Aside: I updated the Parts page (text and screenshots) to reflect the current (3.4 onwards) strings, "All Parts" and "Single Part")