XML file format - Musescore CRASHES!
I have a couple of files XML that I created using Sharp-eye and what I want to do is delete the second part (left hand), add chords, re-format and print in a more concise format. Eventually I would like to make a "book" out of my repertoire.
I can't find an effective way to delete the second part in Musecore and I don't see a way to add chords automatically.
No matter, the beauty of XML is that it is TEXT! and it is standard. There are other programs that can add chords and I can edit the file with WordPad or NotePad Pro!!!
After I edit the file with either editor, Musescore crashes when I try to open the resulting file.
What's going on? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I am new to Notation and after 10 days trying all this stuff it would be nice to have a solution.
Thanks
Ken Franks
Calgary, Alberta
CANADA
Comments
Are you able to open the unedited MusicXML file created by Sharp_Eye?
You said:
> After I edit the file with either editor, Musescore crashes when I try to open the resulting file.
Could you post the XML file created with Sharp-Eye to use in a bug report? I am wondering
if Musescore has a problem reading well formed XML.
I am wondering if you have broken the XML by editing .. maybe you have a missing tag?
That is the problem with editing XML by hand and not using an XML editor - mistakes
are easy to make. I make the same sort of mistakes with my work-related XML.
In reply to MusicXML by ozcaveman
Yes, the original document opens just fine.
And yes, one reason I like Sharp-eye is 'cause it produces nicely formatted XML. I will find out how to upload the files for you and make a separate post.
I have done this several times with the same result and the XML looks fine to me. I simply deleted "Part 2", Which is just one block of code.
In reply to Yes, the original document by KenFranks
Here are the files I am using:-
The original .XML from Sharp-eye
The edited output from Notepad Pro that I tried last .....*NP.XML
and the output from Wordpad that I tried previously ....*- Worpad.XML
The other question was can I remove part 2 in Musiscore?
In reply to XML FILES by KenFranks
Scrub that last question! Right click (On Background) > instruments>
In reply to XML FILES by KenFranks
The partlist in the MusicXml file referes to a part "P2" which is missing. If you delete the P2 also from the partlist, then MuseScore loads the file.
There is only a command line warning about this. Probably MuseScore should not exit on this inconsistency.
In reply to Partlist by [DELETED] 3
Thanks.
Guess i am going to have to learn XML. No problem there, I'd prefer to learn ABC but it seems that ABC is dead or dying - can't find any utility to convert XML TO ABC!
In reply to Thanks. Guess i am going to by KenFranks
You don't need to learn MusicXML (and not XML, it's very different). MusicXML is not meant to be learned by users, but read only by computer. You can read more about MusicXML in [[nodetitle:Export]] (even if MuseScore supports MusicXML as import too).
MusicXML is a lot more feature complete than ABC. ABC was first intended to encode as text traditionnal music and supported only one staff. MusicXML is designed as a interchange format between music notation software. That's why there is not MusicXML to ABC converter, a beethoven symphony can be encoded in a MusicXML file but not in a ABC one.
The only thing you should know about MusicXML is its name and reasons to exist. You don't need to open a MusicXML file with a text editor.
In reply to You don't need to learn by [DELETED] 5
Thanks, that was the piece of information I was missing. As a novice, ABC would probably be more appropriate for my needs. But also many programs don't support lyrics properly.
Some software is promising future ABC support - so your comment puts that in perspective for me.
Thanks again
In reply to I Like ABC!! by KenFranks
MuseScore supports ABC import via a plugin.
I don't get one someone would like to learn ABC syntax when you can enter notes in a visual editor like MuseScore having a lot of features in bonus. To name a few, multiple staves, multiple voices etc... But it's up to you :)
In reply to MuseScore supports ABC import by [DELETED] 5
Do you realize how easy it is to learn ABC?
A LOT EASIER THAN LEARNING MUSESCORE!!! (Or Sharp-eye, Melody assist, OMeR, ... etc etc)
A Free editor (iABC) follows your result with a graphic view and with a few keystrokes you can change ANYTHING!
e.g. If I can't change chords in the editor I am using (or just can't figure out how) iABC allows me to change them like I was in Kindergarten!
BONUS! I don't have to wait for features to be fixed/added, I don't have to wait for support to email me back (maybe!) and I don't have to be cluttering this excellent forum with stupid questions ...
Which thankfully, FANTASTIC members such as yourself keep answering for me.
Music is a hobby for me so for the most part, if I don't do now it doesn't get done. I am devoting my time right now to assessing the software available. I play the keyboard, right hand + chords, so my needs are pretty simple. $169 for Sharp-eye is quite a bite if it doesn't do everything that I want and I can't export, edit and import.
MANY THANKS for that link, I think that will be a HUGE help. Going to try it today.
In reply to You don't need to learn by [DELETED] 5
Actually, ABC is a lot more full-featured than you may think, and it's not dead at all - it just has a smaller following.
The original ABC spec could not do more than one staff, true, and it was quite limited in other ways too. The current 2.0 draft, however, can do multiple staves, multiple voices per staff, all sorts of annotations formatting including use of custom fonts. You *can* actually do a Beethoven symphony in it. Not that you'd normally want to, but just to prove the point, someone went ahead and did just that:
http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/abcmusic/s7m2mp.pdf
I also have a lead sheet I did in ABC using "jazz" type fonts and lyrics; see the attached file "Serving Notice". This was actually about as easy to create in ABC as it would have been for me in Musescore, Finale, or Sibelius. Maybe a bit easier, actually.
The ABC 2.0 draft might be essentially "dead" as an ongoing standardization process, but there are plenty of existing tools under active development that implement that draft spec and further extensions besides - the most important such tool probably being abcm2ps. Which according to the change log for its development release has seen a new revision checked in every few weeks this year (last one about two weeks ago). abcm2ps is used as the underlying notation generation engine by a number of GUI applications.
Anyhow, no doubt MusicXML is more feature-complete than ABC, but ABC has some significant advantages in terms of being easily written and read by humans, and there are situations where doing this is indeed easier than dealing with scoring software. For example, I am finding ABC ideally suited for putting together handouts, homework assignments and tests for my music theory students; it's better suited than any notation system I have used for things like interspersing text and music on a page. One *could* of course do this in MusicXML too, but doing by hand would not be fun, and GUI tool support for the sort of things I am doing is lacking. See the attached file "The Chromatic Scale" for an example of the sort of thing I am talking about.
All this is to say, I absolutely agree that robust facilities for conversion between ABC and MusicXML would be a wonderful thing. I've seen bits and pieces in both directions, but nothing (including the ABC import plug-in shipped with Musescore) really comes close to doing the job justice.
In reply to Actually, ABC is a lot more by Marc Sabatella
Can't seem to get the printed output I want in MuseScore so I am outputting to .ly and printing with LilyPond! So I am having to learn that language because MuseScore doesn't output it properly just yet.
It seems that there a are two camps using these packages - Some professionals/teachers who want multi part:- A) full featured scores and B) individual musicians who just want to print lead sheets for their own use.
The result is that some software is vastly overpriced for the latter and some doesn't work properly because it is trying to be everything to everybody.
It might make more sense to develop for the individual musician (pianist) first and then extend functionality later. And it might make sense to take to different approaches to functions like outputting LilyPond code!
MuseScore's .ly output is quite close for my purposes but the first things I have to do are;
1) reformat the Chords and Lyrics code by breaking them into lines that I can see and edit on the screen.
2) remove Errors in the Lyrics caused by Punctuation
3) correct Chord positioning
4) copy these pieces of code into my own template to remove all the variables and simplify the code.
Then I can fix things that MuseScore can't do yet like:-
5) fix up Repeats
Then I am ready to:-
6) fix up other errors in My lead sheet and
7) format my output and print.
ALL THIS is made much more difficult by MuseScore's output format because it sets everything up as variables and then refers to these when setting up the full score. I can see where approach is very necessary when dealing with full scores but it is really not appropriate for my use and I think it would be better if MuseScore asked me which type of user I was and output the code accordingly.
The LilyPond output code is really quite close to being correct for single instrument lead sheets.
And, again, .LY is not a language I am supposed to be learning, is it? It's not bad though. Similar to ABC and jEdit really helps, but the documentation is poor. The language (of necessity) is very full featured and therefore complicated and there is no graphic editor that I have found.
In reply to Now I'm Learning LilyPond!! Oh Dear! by KenFranks
Can you specify the needs that LilyPond is meeting that MuseScore is not meeting?
Unlike MusicXML, LilyPond is intended to be written and understood by humans.
In reply to Can you specify the needs by David Bolton
David,
Yes, In general LilyPond formats and prints my leadsheets for me. One parameter lets me size my lead sheet and the assumptions that LilyPond makes from there produces a pretty nice result.. I would like all my music on one page but also would like it to be large enough to be able to read easily in lower light. (So bigger print). I also want to standardize the size as near as possible.
The LilyPond language is nice and concise (much like ABC) so I can also edit my music to remove repetitive passages, insert repeats and generally make a more concise lead sheet. I can't help noticing that when I buy music, it has been expanded to make it look like I am getting my money's worth!! e.g. "I have a Dream" by Abba is SEVERN PAGES!!!! I haven't figured that one out yet but most songs can be reduced to one page fairly easily.
MuseScore has many, many format parameters and editing features that I haven't yet got the hang of. A couple of things are causing me problems with this after several weeks working with it.
1) There seems to be some delay in seeing the results of what I am doing. Not sure what causes this but (for example) when I press the delete key the selected item doesn't always disappear.
2) I am not always sure what mode I am in - there seems to be other modes besides note-entry.
3) Some functions don't seem to always work - is this because I am in the wrong mode?
4) the documentation is really lacking - especially for novices like me. I have tried but simply cannot figure out how to format my pages.
5) Last line of my music is ALWAYS a mess!
F5 is the standard Window Refresh key - it would be nice if it was implemented in MuseScore. Then I could quickly confirm the actions that I have just taken!
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE MuseScore, it's a GREAT package and one of the best things is that it handles so many different formats.
So that brings me to my last comment. Now bear in mind that I am an old programmer of many years and have written many, many packages in my time. So I understand why MuseScore has its own language (.mro). But when you write a package that uses it's own language you create a product that MUST do everything that the user desires - that's a pretty tall order!! So although it takes more computing to work with say XML or ABC, it would provide a more versatile result.
Of course I would LOVE IT if MuseScore input .ly files and I can see that that is possible but the output would be re-formatted and I would have to re-do some of my edits. Wouldn't it be fantastic if it worked with ,ly as its native language? Hmm... to late for that I would think!
In reply to David, Yes, In general by KenFranks
It is difficult to help you or fix bugs without getting more specifics. Can you give step-by-step instructions for when you delete something but it doesn't disappear? What you see in MuseScore should always be the latest refresh (that is the idea of WYSIWYG). Please give steps so other can reproduce. "Some functions don't seem to always work" again please be specific.
Import of .ly files would be very difficult. Someone started a while ago but it crashed on all but the simplest of files. If you are the programing type feel free to have a go: http://mscore.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mscore/trunk/mscore/mscore/lil…
I'm not sure what you mean by MuseScore having its own .mro language, but it is certainly not the goal of MuseScore to meet "the users every desire". The main goal is to be good at basic Western notation, that in itself is a tall order.
In reply to More specific by David Bolton
I haven't worked with it for a week or so so I don't want to get too specific without going back and trying again. Since you show interest I will do that in the next couple of weeks. But it definitely delays when I am altering the page/sheet/etc format parameters and seems to catch up after I have entered something else. This makes it very difficult to figure out what these parameters do. I think i saw a refresh function somewhere but I haven't gone back to try that.
I was a bit "tongue in cheek" about importing .ly files. I understand that that is not only difficult but would not be a priority. Also wouldn't really help at this point if it is going to re-format the output. It would be more appropriate when ALL the MuseScore features are working 100%.
My Programming experience is mostly in Machine Language, Assembler, COBOL, BASIC and many derivatives. And I don't think FoxPro (before Microsoft bought /Wrecked it) would help either!!
Sorry, I meant ".msxc" not ".mro". Looks like binary code to me. Probably VERY efficient but I would have some difficulty learning it and modifying it with jEdit, NotePad Pro, etc.
I don't mean to be critical, MuseScore is a VERY, VERY fine piece of software - probably the best out there (and I don't mean just because it's free!!) It's just that whenever I designed a software package, I always assumed that there were going to be bugs and shortcomings that would make it difficult for users to complete their projects - so I would have chosen a TEXT format so that user could bypass errors until they had been fixed. But then I usually worked alone or as PL so I was allowed to admit my possible shortcomings!! (committees don't usually allow you that luxury! lol)
Thanks for your response David, I will get back to you.
In reply to I'll try to get more detail for you when I have more time by KenFranks
MuseScore uses a plain-text xml format for its files (read about Uncompressed MuseScore format in [[nodetitle:Export]] ). The .mscz file is basically a zip-compressed version of the text file plus a little meta data.
In reply to MuseScore uses a plain-text by David Bolton
OKAY that makes sense and I'd have to say "good choice"
However, Musescore doesn't really "edit" xml - it inputs it and outputs it. At first glance, the output looks nothing like the input! Looking closer i can see that it has added some code and reformatted all the spacing - hard to tell what else.
Tell me, if I have a problem and MuseScore is not doing what I want, can I modify the XML and input it back into MuscScore or will it negate my corrections?
In reply to OKAY that makes sense and I'd by KenFranks
XML is for machines not humans (although the semi human readable format has many advantages). Whitespace is ignored but any changes to the whitespace will be reformatted for technical reasons. I don't really recommend editing the file by hand except for experimentation or testing on files you don't particularly mind losing or accidentally corrupting.