The Play Count property for a measure at the end of a numbered ending
The User Guide tells us that for a measure with an ending repeat mark that is at the end of a numbered ending, we must be certain that the measure property Play Count is one more than the number of "passes" for which that ending will be played.
But in fact, the real imperative is only that the value of Play Count must be greater than the number of "passes" for which the ending will be played. We could in fact set Play Count for all such measures to 1000, and everything would work as intended.
How can this be? Well, in the case of a numbered ending, the number of times it is played is determined by its list of "passes". The value of Play Count is not required to control that.
But if that value is equal to or less than the number of assigned passes for the ending, the mechanism that, for a basic repeat, controls the number of times it is played (which is the value of Play Count in that case) would, in this case (a numbered ending), come into action and prematurely "exit" the processing of the current ending.
The program will then look ahead for an ending assigned the current pass, and there is of course no such, so play just stops.
But MuseScore will not always set Play Count to a suitable value when a numbered ending is applied (thus the clear alert in the User Guide). If the scorist does not take the extra step of checking that, play will not complete properly.
It would be much better if there were no Play Count property for a measure with an ending repeat barline that is at the end of a numbered ending. As an alternative, it would be desirable for that property to always be automatically set to, say, 1000 for any such measure when the ending is applied, or if an ending repeat barline is applied under an existing numbered ending.
Doug
Comments
> "We could in fact set Play Count for all such measures to 1000, and everything would work as intended."
No it wouldn't, and the test suite of scores that validate the repeat behavior would break if you tried to do so.
You will not break the volta interpretation, but you will break the Jump interpretation and behavior, as after a Jump the "last repeat" should be honored. That is exactly where those play counts come into play (pun detected).
> "But if that value is equal to or less than the number of assigned passes for the ending, the mechanism that, for a basic repeat, controls the number of times it is played (which is the value of Play Count in that case) would, in this case (a numbered ending), come into action and prematurely "exit" the processing of the current ending."
Again, No that's not what happens. The volta will be honored if it's own play count is too low as long as something else can increase the play count for the moment the volta is encountered (such as a Jump looking for the "final repeat" or just another later plain end repeat marking.
> "The program will then look ahead for an ending assigned the current pass, and there is of course no such, so play just stops."
Almost. Playback interpretation doesn't "look ahead" looking for the matching ending. It processes each and every ending and measure in-between. It skips non-matching ones, rather than looking ahead for matching ones.
> "But MuseScore will not always set Play Count to a suitable value when a numbered ending is applied"
It never sets the play count when you apply a volta. Which indeed is the reason that the handbook tells you to set it as needed yourself.
> "It would be much better if there were no Play Count property for a measure with an ending repeat barline that is at the end of a numbered ending."
That would only work assuming the play count should always be matching with the number of entries in the repeat list. While that assumption is true in the majority of occurrences, it is not true for all of them; hence the need for manual adjustment remains a requirement.
In reply to > "We could in fact set Play… by jeetee
Hi, Jeetee,
Thank you for all that. Indeed my testing was too limited. I appreciate your insight into the situation.
In any case, given all that, it is disappointing that the scorist needs to apply the appropriate value of Play Count when a numbered ending construct is being applied. This is based on my understanding that the appropriate value is directly determinable from the "repeat list".
So I guess my suggestion devolves to:
It would be desirable for MuseScore to automatically set the appropriate value of Play Count when a numbered ending is applied, or if a backward repeat barline is applied at the end of an existing numbered ending.
Thanks again for your detailed insight into this matter.
I am curious about one thing. You say:
>That would only work assuming the play count should always be matching with the number of entries in the repeat list. While that assumption is true in the majority of occurrences, it is not true for all of them; hence the need for manual adjustment remains a requirement.
Since the manual says that one must set the Play Count to one more than the number of times the [passage ending with the] measure ending is to be played, and this is presented in the context of setup up a numbered endings construct, does that mean that (in those "special cases") the scorist's understanding of "the number of times the measure would be played" would not match the number of entries in the repeat list?
It that is indeed true, I would be fascinated to learn of an example.
Thanks so much
Best regards,
Doug
In reply to Hi, Jeetee, Thank you for… by Doug Kerr
Hi, Jeetee,
I have constructed an example that demonstrates the need for the Play Count value to be set as instructed in the User Guide. The file is attached.
It is currently set with the Play Count values set as directed in the Guide.
I do not fully understand what happens here when the Play Count is set higher than as directed, but I don't need to!
It was interesting to learn that the "Play Repeats" option means just what is says: if it is OFF, the "repeats" encountered in play after the jump are not played at all (not, for example, played but only once).
Doug
In reply to Hi, Jeetee, I have… by Doug Kerr
Hi, Jeetee,
I am s\till interested in seeing an example of a case where the proper setting of Play Count was not one more than the number of entries in the Repeat List.
Thanks.
Doug
In reply to Hi, Jeetee, I am s\till… by Doug Kerr
See attached simplified example. The most common case where the play count needs to be different from the common value as shown by the handbook is when a Jump is involved in the "final repeat" volta.
If you want more insight into the test suite used by MuseScore, you can view the 3.x one at https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/tree/3.x/mtest/libmscore/repeat
In reply to See attached simplified… by jeetee
jeetee,
Oh, yes, that is very helpful.
Not being an actual musician, I was unaware of the implications of a D.C. located where we see that one: that the second ending should be played one more time (its third time) during the "D.C." pass.
It is ironic that if, for M5, we set Play Count to 2, M4-5 is played 3 times overall, whereas if we set Play Count to 3, M4-5 is played 2 times overall.
Thank you so much.
Doug
In reply to jeetee, Thanks you so much… by Doug Kerr
Just for entertainment's sake, the attached score shows a construct for which the value of Play Count at M3 must be different that that suggested in the User Guide.
It seems to me that this comes about because pass 4 (the last assignment of the first ending) is not followed by a pass 5 of this same passage (with its own ending), even thorough the first ending ends with a backward repeat (needed of course after pass 1).
Doug