Differentiate between barline types
When selecting barlines as objects, it would be useful to have the software classify the first barline of a system differently than the rest of the single barlines in the document. Similarly for double barlines, final barlines, repeat barlines, etc.
This would make it much easier to obtain the kind of result shown in the attachment using "select all similar elements". Currently, it doesn't differentiate, so you have to: select all similar - uncheck span to next staff - ctrl+select several barlines per system for the entire document - check span to next staff. Not horrible, but finicky and time-consuming.
This may not be standard engraving practice, but it's a reasonable use case and so it would be good to make it easier to accomplish when desired.
Thoughts?
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| barlines example.pdf | 14.89 KB |
Comments
So you want to break the barlines for most measures but leave the barline at the start of each system intact?
Format >Style >Barlines and uncheck "Barline at start of multiple staves".
Select all similar (barlines) and make your changes.
Back to Format >Style >Barlines and re-apply "Barline at start of multiple staves".
In reply to So you want to break the… by underquark
I suppose that's another way of doing it. Quicker, for sure, if less intuitive. Is there a similar process to exclude double/end/repeat barlines?
In reply to I suppose that's another way… by abnyc
Yes there is, because repeats can be selected as a separate subtype via Select >More.
Hmm, somehow I'm not understanding the goal here. The only thing I see that looks different from the normal default in the posted example is the double bar in measure 8 is extended across all staves for some reason. Is that the non-standard notation you are trying to experiment with, or is there something else I am missing?
If the goal is simply to create that non-standard double-bar in bar 8, I'm not understanding what the initial system barline has to do with anything here, or why you'd be trying to select all similar elements. All you need to do to is set up the score that way - looks like that's for voice, piano, and bass? - which does everything right, and then add your double then Ctrl+drag it down. Ctrl is the modifier used through MuseScore to limit the scope of operations (eg, to add a barline to one staff only). In this case, you're making it affect that measure only and not all measures.
If there's something else I'm not understanding, then if you attach your actual score and describe what you are trying to do in more detail, we can understand and assist better.
In reply to Hmm, somehow I'm not… by Marc Sabatella
Oh, it's just that making this from scratch, MS defaults to every barline extended through the staves, not just the ones starting a system. To get here I had to select all similar, unextend them, and then re-extend the system ones manually. (I could also have manually deselected all the system-beginning barlines after the select similar elements operation.) The bit about the double barlines etc. is just a side-note.
In reply to Oh, it's just that making… by abnyc
I am also not sure I am following. What instruments are in your sample score? Musescore connects bar lines for instrument "families". I created a score for flute piano and bass. Bar lines were similar to yours. Even when I changed the flute to piano the staves stayed separated.
In reply to I am also not sure I am… by bobjp
Huh. I guess I did something backwards in there then. That was "piano" single staff, piano grand staff, acoustic bass. Maybe the 2 "pianos" prompted it to group the three of them.
In reply to Huh. I guess I did something… by abnyc
Hmm, maybe this isn't a new score at all, but you started with the default empty score and tried adding to it? Don't do that - much better to start from scratch and select the actual instruments.
In reply to Hmm, maybe this isn't a new… by Marc Sabatella
That is the case, yes. Started from a lead sheet template, added piano & bass. Why does that operate differently than adding the instruments one at a time? I do it this way to have my formatting/style settings pre-set.
In reply to That is the case, yes… by abnyc
Ah, the Jazz Lead Sheet template is kind of special, it really isn't intended for ensemble music. Better to use the Jazz Combo template for that. The issues with using the Jazz Lead Sheet template is that it has a single staff that is actually part of a piano, and basically, any staff you try adding, the automatic ordering and bracketing algorithm gets confused and tries to interpret as the other half of the grand staff, and that throws everything else off. That's a bug, really, but anyhow, it's a reason to avoid using the Jazz Lead Sheet template other than for actual lead sheets.
Still, you can work around it. When you go to Edit Instruments, start by adding a second staff to the existing piano, and also set the "Score Ordering" to "Jazz Combo" (that's already the default for the Jazz Combo template). Then you can add whatever other instruments you want and the automatic instrument ordering and bracketing should work correctly.
In reply to Oh, it's just that making… by abnyc
It would only default to barlines all the way through the staves if for some reason you had one big four-staff instrument, or three instruments from the same family, or something else unusual, instead of what it actually appears to be - three separate instruments voice, piano, and bass. So if you set the score up correctly, the barlines are already correct from the beginning.
But even so, it's simple to fix after the fact. Just drag one barline to change it, and affects the whole score. And the initial barline remains connected, just as it should; MuseScore knows not to mess with that. So, need noeed to select all similar at all, just a simple drag does the job. Well, two drags - first the barline between the voice and piano, then the barline between piano and bass.
Still, since the score is empty and at this point you may have kind of messed up your barline state, probably easier to just start over but this time set it up properly - select voice, piano, and bass (or whatever the instruments are) from the instrument list and it's all perfect right from the beginning, no fiddling required.
In reply to It would only default to… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks. I don't know how I failed to try just dragging a single barline back, instead of selecting everything and going into the inspector to uncheck the box. Let's call it creative thinking.
In reply to It would only default to… by Marc Sabatella
FYI, I tried repeating the process but using a guitar instead of the piano, and it still grouped the lead & guitar staves. In fact, it added a bracket, too, which is odd. But it's probably not the two instruments being from the same family.
In reply to FYI, I tried repeating the… by abnyc
Yes, see my comment above. The single staff in the Jazz Lead Sheet template is basically half of a piano and it kind of pulls in any other staff it can find to try to complete the grand staff.