Imported music in wrong key
I imported my Bass Clarinet part so that I could practice. it all looks just right except the pitch is wrong. I changed the voice to Bass Clarinet and the pitch didn't change. I tried playing with various settings and either a) the pitch still didn't change or b) the flats / sharps changed. This is a really cool feature, but if the uploaded pitch of the music is wrong, really doesn't help that much. Help
Comments
What did you import it from? - attach the source file.
By "pitch is wrong", do you mean that it sounds too high or too low when played back? And, by how much?
In reply to What did you import it from?… by underquark
I've attached the source file. And yes it's the wrong pitch. The first note is an Eb, but the pitch is wrong if a Bass Clarinet is playing it. It should be lower. And this has happened on a couple of items I have imported.
Thank you
In reply to I've attached the source… by risamorris1
What is the key of the original piece?
In reply to I've attached the source… by risamorris1
Pls. attach your imported file saved as mscz.
How did you change the voice?
Don't do it in the mixer but choose your instrument using Staff/Part properties ...
A bass clarinet is a Bb instrument so you need to choose the key signature Ab.
In reply to Pls. attach your imported… by HildeK
Yes I did that. I posted the mscz file in the post below yours
In reply to Pls. attach your imported… by HildeK
Correct, that is what I did
In reply to I've attached the source… by risamorris1
The PDF is read as concert pitch - a written C sounds the same as a piano's C. Your instrument is (presumably) in Bb. Import the music as if you were doing it for a flute (a written C sounds as a C) and then change the instrument to your instrument - do this using Stave Properties. You may need to transpose and adjust by an octave, too.
In reply to The PDF is read as concert… by underquark
I did all this and it didn't work. Here is the mscz file as requested by one of the other respondents
In reply to I did all this and it didn't… by risamorris1
As I understand it, the original score is in the key of Bb. And the Bass Clarinet PDF is in concert key, Bb that is. Then for you to play this part, it needs to be up one step. Your first note would be your F. That'a why I asked what key the score is in. If you had the complete score you could put it into MuseScore, put it into concert pitch and extract your base clarinet part. As it is I imported your PDF, added a bass clarinet staff, C+P the the imported music into the new staff, and corrected for octave. You also need to fix the line starting at M. 106. As well as other places where pencil marks came through as something else.
In reply to As I understand it, the… by bobjp
I am really new to this. I don't know how to do this, and I've looked. When I hit the C+P I get a keyboard. Then I'm stuck. When I change octaves, it doesn't change to the correct pitch. I'm really trying to understand how to execute all this.
In reply to I am really new to this. I… by risamorris1
C+P means copy and paste. Ctrl-P opens the keyboard.
In reply to I am really new to this. I… by risamorris1
The PDF import knows nothing about your instrument. It is assumed that it is a non transposing instrument; the selected sound is 'voice'. The pitch is then o.k. when you import non transposing instruments: flute, trombone, tuba, piano etc.
But your bass clarinet is a transposing instrument. I suggest to do the following steps:
- import the PDF, be sure, it is of quite good quality.
- right click on a measure and choose "Staff/Part properties ..."
- in this window press "change instrument" and select your bass clarinet. You will see, that the key signature changes.
- choose the correct key signatur of the score - not this of the bass clarinet sheet but one with two 'b' more, here As-major key signatur. The notes get two semitones higher. That is what you hear actually.
- To correct this, select all (Ctrl-A) and use the arrow key to bring them two semitones down.
Now it should be like your PDF and it should sound right.
By the way: the PDF import is very sensitiv on e.g. bad resolution, hand written parts and even does not always import grace notes correctly. Especially the grace notes lead to measures with a wrong length as I found in your file. This has to be corrected at great expense, so I prefer to write the whole piece by hand.
Didn't you check my file below that I posted yesterday? Does it sound right?
Edit: you need not to transpose, you should not change the voice in the mixer, only by choosing the correct instrument.
In reply to The PDF import knows nothing… by HildeK
If the original key of the piece is Bb, then this part does need to be transposed.
In reply to If the original key of the… by bobjp
May be I'm wrong.
But if I get a music sheet for my instrument it is typically in a transposed notation and not in concert pitch. So is the sheet of the thread opener. This is one sheet out of a sum of different instruments which are playing together, some are transposing (usually clarinet, trumpet, horn, sax), others not (usually flute, tuba, trombone).
When using the PDF import, there is no information about the instrument - only notes and the signature are recognized. Do it and you will see that a non transposing instrument is the default sound (here: oohs or aahs).
Then change the instrument to what it shall be - not in the mixer but in Staff/Part properties. The notes change to an other notated pitch and this must be corrected. For the bass clarinet by shifting down two semitones.
In reply to May be I'm wrong. But if I… by HildeK
We don't know if this part came from a transposed score.
We don't know what the OP is trying to practice with. This score or some other recording.
The OP said that the pitch was wrong. But they didn't say if it was high or low.
The most probable answer would be that when the bass clarinet plays it's written Eb ( the first note of this music), what comes out is a concert Db. Bb instruments are pitched two semitones lower than concert pitch. This part needs to be moved up two semitones. Then when an F is played, what comes out is a concert Eb. This can be done at least three ways.
1. Transpose the part up a major second.
2. Use staff properties to change the instrument to treble clef bass clarinet. Then move everything down an octave.
3. Add a bass clarinet staff. Copy and paste the top staff into the the new bass clarinet part. Move the notes down an octave.
In any event, the results all move the part up two semitones.
In reply to I did all this and it didn't… by risamorris1
Main problem is that your bass clarinet is a transposing instrument. I've no experience in importing scores from a pdf. But if it does match, I select the correct instrument by right mouse button and choose as instrument the Bb bass clarinet. Then I add the correct key signatur. A Bb instuments needs to have Ab major selected to be written in Bb major. Finally I selected all (Ctrl-A) and shift the very fist note to its correct pitch - here an Es.
Then it should fit - see the attached score. Pls.check it.
Edit: you need to correct a lot of the slurs and ties! Manually.
In reply to Main problem is that your… by HildeK
If a score is in Bb, then Bb instruments need to be transposed up one step to C.
In reply to If a score is in Bb, then Bb… by bobjp
I went to the transpose the Transpose to key, although selected to C Major / A minor, is grayed out. no matter what I hit I am unable to use that. The only option is By Interval, which is currently Diminished Second, or Transpose Diatonically. Neither of which seems to change the pitch
In reply to I went to the transpose the… by risamorris1
Transpose by interval/Up/. In the drop down menu, select Major Second/OK.
C+P means Copy and Paste. Sorry I wasn't very clear. You can also do this by adding a Bass Clarinet. But that is more steps. Although good learn,
In reply to What did you import it from?… by underquark
Just looking... this is "close" to my problem. Maybe related? I imported a flugel solo pdf and is basically worked, but musescore playback sounds an octave too high. I did change the instrument (several tries; it is now "trumpet" and I transposed it as trumpet. But (for example) "C" below the staff plays back as 3rd space C.
This is one of the first imports for me that has basically worked. Attaching my pdf.
Thank you (anyone) for your help.
In reply to Just looking... this is … by Brent Sterner
There is no pdf attached, but the mscx file shows some strange things. If we had both, it would be easier to figure out what went wrong.
Your treble clef is an 8va alta clef. Was that intended?
The notes therefore sound an octave higher. Select the normal treble clef, then select all the notes and move them down an octave with ctrl-arrow-down.
In general: importing a PDF sheet of music (OMR) is far from being perfect. Often there are problems with triplets, with measure lengths, with transposing instruments and others. Actually, rework is almost always necessary.
In the mscx file, I can see some measures that are longer than they nominally should be, probably triplets were not recognized (measures with the little light gray plus sign). And I see slurs that go over rests, also rather unusual.
In reply to There is no pdf attached,… by HildeK
I had NO IDEA about the various treble clefs. (I'm just a hack having some fun and Musescore is a wonderful gift for people like me.)
I did as you suggested and, voila, it is fixed! I should add that several Musescore wizards (which now include you) have added to this gift. I thank you, and everyone else that is serving our community.
I'm including the PDF I used to get started. No idea if others have messed up like I did. You determined what was wrong with little evidence. Perhaps you can figure out how I messed up so I don't do it again.
I know there are things to fix with this. I was just starting down that road when the clef bit me. The process also dropped some measures and missed a bunch of cues... but that is forgivable considering how well the process works.
Thank you again. Big time.
Regards...
PS If you have any influence with Musescore instrumentation, I suggest it could use a flugelhorn, perhaps 2 (one dark, one less so).
In reply to I had NO IDEA about the… by Brent Sterner
Thanks for the PDF.
This little '8' on the top of the clef says that the notes should be played an octave higher as written. Mostly used on piano or organ staves.
The PDF shows my assumptions: triplets are not recognized. Same happens to some augmentation dots. That leads to wrong measure lenghts or rhythms.
Also almost not recognized are the smaller notes marked with 'S. ct.' (whatever it is :-)) and multi measure rests.
The key change in measure 43 wasn't recognized too.
The main problem is the OMR of transposing instruments and the import does not know or recognize what kind of instrument was used: non-transposing instruments like piano, flute, trombone, tuba are no problem, but transposing instruments like trumpet (Bb), alto saxophone (Eb), horn (F) and others requires further corrections which you then have to do yourself.
Usually I first choose the right instrument (flugelhorn in Bb), set the key of the chamber (here: Eb major) and then transpose the notes to the right position.
In reply to Thanks for the PDF. This… by HildeK
Thanks again.
I can live with tidying up stuff. Way better than creating from scratch with my limited skills. :-) All my work is "big/jazz band" based. Bigger bands are too much work for me right now. When I find a tune I like, I try to build it into something I hear in my head and Musescore lets me do that. And actually hear it.
In this case a colleague was playing the flugel solo from a hand-written conductor score. A bear to read, so I found the pdf (not perfect but reasonably close) and hoped to create a clearer copy for him. You know the rest. Another learning experience for me.
You mention "first choose the right instrument (flugel in Bb)..." Is there some way to select a flugelhorn? Or were you being generic? If I could do that instead of trumpet then I might better know if my notes are what is in my head. Which might be good...
Thanks again for your help and insight.
In reply to Thanks again. I can live… by Brent Sterner
> Is there some way to select a flugelhorn?
Yes, when you create a new score or add an instrument (i) then you should change from the 'Common' group to 'All Instruments' or simply write in the search field 'flugel' to find it.
But the sound of the flugelhorn in MuseScore is the same as the trumpet. Maybe there are MuS 3 soundfonts that have a more realistic sound for the flugelhorn, maybe only in MuS 4. I can't use that, my PC is too old, and for my use so far the difference was beside the point.
By 'right instrument' I meant it is important to select a Bb instrument, so a Bb trumpet is also possible because of the transposition. As I said, this is lost during the PDF import.
My opinion: often the effort to repair a PDF import is as big as simply copying it by hand. It is well worth getting more practice at transcribing.
BTW: if you want to continue using MuS 3: the latest and best version is MuS 3.6.2. Your file was written with a slightly older version.