Confused: US/traditional notation issue - one octave shift??
I am new to MuseScore and am kind of enthusiastic.
Everyone can now create, orchestrate and play his music,
rehearse vocals with as many other voices and instruments
as he wishes, at any tempo, etc. etc. etc.
A complete composer's toolbox inside your computer.
However, what surprised me when I played and read
scores of a cappella groups like Pentatonix was that
they played correctly - but music was written one octave
below the real pitch, as I knew it from my studies of music.
I checked past discussions - and there was some issue
over selecting C3 or C4 as the "middle C" - that may be it
or not, but It looks like another long-time convention was
violated.
What I discovered after leafing through some standard American music theory books was that americans tie treble clef stave and bass clef stave at C4 not at C3 !!!!!!!!!!!
Or, in other words, the bass clef colon surrounds not F2, but F3 -
according to this notation, while the G (or treble) clef curls
around G4, not G3
Which means all scores in MuseScore must be written one octave lower to sound correctly -- compared to the decades of years (if not a hundred or so) of standard musical notation, which I learned as a child.
I.e. it looks like I was totally wrong for the whole 5 years of my
piano playing - using sheet music published all over Europe -
if we believe this newfangled notation convention, where the C on the additional line below the treble stave and the same C one ledger line above the bass key stave is not C3, but C4.
Now, this I consider an impossibility - and please tell me whether I am just confused over some trivial misunderstanding, or whether indeed US notation system (or some new standard or whatever else it could be) indeed shifted the scores one octave up - and now require music to be written one octave below the universally accepted past convention.
My chest voice goes down to E2/D2, which gives a pretty good point to
compare - while the Pentatonix score I reviewed placed the E2 sound in
the bass voice in its SATB transcription on one additional line below
the base stave, rather than immediately below the line surrounded by the
colon of the bass key, between lines 3 and 4 inside the stave.
So what is it?
--------------
// if I am wrong in some trivial way, I will delete this message not to
pollute the forum after receiving an explanation. If this indeed is a real issue,
I will let it stay//
Comments
Middle C is C4. Some non-orchestral instrument players (eg cornet in a brass band, flute in a military band) occasionally refer to C4 as bottom C, C5 as middle or high C and C6 as top C since that reflects the Cs within their normal range of play.
In reply to Middle C is C4. Some by underquark
Sorry, I seem to be wrong, and my posted question
is a non-issue
It is very likely that I have not understood anything of the OP, but can we agree that, in usual modern practice, the A on the second space of treble clef is at 440 Hz (on in its vicinity, a few Hz plus or minus)?
This is what MuseScore implements by default (i.e. with non-transposing instruments, no 8a signs and so on) and, at the best of my knowledge, this is what modern Western common notation implies on either side of the Atlantic Ocean (or of whatever other Ocean, for that matter). Whatever this A is called, numbered or labelled by whomever, MuseScore generates the A (as well as all other notes consequently) I expect it to generate.
From where did you get the impression that MuseScore generates notes in the wrong octave?
In reply to It is very likely that I have by Miwarre
in usual modern practice, the A on the second space of treble clef is at 440 Hz
..and I was expecting 220Hz -- and that is where my own madness lies.
Welcome aboard...
As a guitarist, I can appreciate your madness/confusion. As a beginning student, I was presented with regular treble clef and happily plucked notes which actually sounded an octave lower than written.
Then, much later, I discovered this:
Regards, and don't worry about deleting your post. It will help others...
In reply to Welcome aboard... As a by Jm6stringer
Actually, thanks a lot. There indeed was an 8 under the clef in the score
I was ranting about
This type of notation is new to me - I am used to seeing brackets (like the
red one in your answer) with an 8 - but totally missed the number under the
clef
So thanks again, it's a relief to know I'm not crazy after all.
Long live MuseScore. ;))
In reply to Actually, thanks a lot. There by subharmonic2
FWIW, the clef with the 8 is used for tenor voice, guitar, and a couple of other instruments. Actually some editions use the 8 but others treat the instrument as a transposing instrument like Bb clarinets etc. Either way, that;'s the standard way music for these instruments is always notated - these instruments sound an ocvtave lower than they are apparently written. Not just US; this is universal.
In reply to FWIW, the clef with the 8 is by Marc Sabatella
".. for these instruments.. Not just US; this is universal."
Yep, and I had studied piano as a kid and then somehow remained blissfully
unaware of the convention and did not even notice the mark.
Therefore the confused rant above.
Anyway, it's clear now. Thanks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation should clarify the terminology.