Smart scrolling in note entry
I constantly find myself flipped into note entry mode when editing notes, e.g. adding chord notes, and then when I tap in the white space between staves to drag the display to the next measure of interest I wind up adding some impossible note with twelve ledger lines at a random place. It would be lovely if the default behavior for note entry via pointing would only take effect in the same region last changed -- the same measure or an adjacent one. Perhaps with a cutoff of n ledger lines? Otherwise assume I'm trying to scroll the display. And more generally, I'm often surprised by transition to note entry. Are there stated rules for when this happens automatically? Can I control this? I'd generally prefer to stay out of it except when I initiate it.
Comments
+1. I find that when editing an existing score, the program goes into 'note entry mode' quite often when I don't want it to do so.
It would be good if going into note entry mode were something that the user was required to initiate by typing N or clicking the icon.
In reply to +1. I find that when editing by Recorder485
Created issue #117241: Change note entry to interpret white space clicks as scroll requests, not ledger note entry
Created issue #117231: Remove automatic note entry after duration change
Created issue #117236: Suppress automatic page repositioning
In reply to +1. I find that when editing by Recorder485
To add a contrary voice: I find it goes into note entry quite often exactly when I want it in note entry mode. Meaning I am happy with the way it works, but if most users disagree I will be fine with different rules.
I have sometimes wondered how the creators figured out when it would be practical to have MS switch to note entry--with all the other difficulties to consider as well...
In reply to +1. I find that when editing by Recorder485
+2. I find it a minor nuisance when note entry mode engages automatically, when I'm only making minor edits to already-entered content. I prefer it be something that I have to deliberately turn on.
In reply to +2. I find it a minor by marty strasinger
As far as I know, absolutely nothing will turn on note input mode except:
1. You turn on note input mode, or
2. You select a starting point and enter a note.
In reply to As far as I know, absolutely by Isaac Weiss
Zack, that second point is the problem when one is editing a score. If I click on an existing note that needs to be changed, as soon as I type in the new pitch, the program flips automatically into note entry mode. I don't want that to happen, 9 times out of 10, so I'm forever hitting ESC or N--or worse, forgetting to hit one of those keys and then messing up material I've already written.
Good thing MuseScore allows unlimited 'Undo' commands. ;o)
In reply to Zack, that second point is by Recorder485
So you mean you want to enter a new note without entering note input mode?
In reply to So you mean you want to enter by Isaac Weiss
No--I want to be able to CHANGE an existing note without entering note input mode.
I can do this by using the up/down arrows, but most often it's easier and faster just to type the new pitch on the computer keyboard.
It's interesting, actually, that one can apply keyboard shortcuts to a selected note (pitch up/down; octave up/down, etc.) and stay in 'edit' mode, but one cannot overwrite the pitch name from the keyboard without causing the program to enter input mode. Do you suppose that input mode is triggered by only the pitch-name keys, but not by the rest of the keyboard?
ETA: I note that I cannot overwrite a pitch from the midi-keyboard at all unless I put the program into entry mode first. This is not a bad thing; it means I can fiddle around looking for melodic/harmonic solutions on the midi-keyboard without affecting the score (so I don't have to get off my lazy backside and walk three metres all the way over to the harpsichord. ;o)
In reply to No--I want to be able to by Recorder485
Changing pitch of an existing mode outside of note input mode should normally be a opretty rare operation, ezxcept in the case where you actually intend to change an entire passage, so here I *do* agree with the decision to jump into note input mode. You've just entered a note, chances are pretty good you will want to enter others. I think the arrows are the smarter choice for changing a single pitch, although I recognize that doesn't help if you have no keyboard. I think what makes more sense is to add toolbar buttons to duplicate the function of the arrow keys.
In reply to Changing pitch of an existing by Marc Sabatella
Interesting. I do this CONSTANTLY, not rarely. My work mode must be very different from the norm. Here is a typical example: I enter a melody using note input mode; I then return to selected notes and add additional notes as chords. I would NEVER choose to be in note input mode when doing this vertical editing operation. I am just adding specific notes to selected chords. I rarely move on to the next note in the melody.
There seem to be two different usage styles involved here, where some work is done horizontally (and where note input node is perfect) but at other times work is done vertically or randomly. (In fact a vertical input node, where the focus shifts to the next upward pitch in the chord, would almost be more useful. Not completely serious about that.)
I am sure that my abnormal usage is due to the fact that I'm a) working with guitar scores, which have many scattered chords and multiple voices on a single staff, and b) often doing transcriptions, which involves a mixture of horizontal and vertical entry.
In reply to Interesting. I do this by spinality
Why wouldn't you enter all the notes while in note input in the first pass? I can't any advantage to adding notes in a second pass.
But OK, even if you've decided to do this, that's different from you previously described - you are now talking about *adding* a note to a chord, not *changing pitch*. BTW, note there is no "change pitch" command; just an "enter new note" command, which is not really the same thing at all (different effect on the surrounding context, including attached lyrics etc). For the "add new note to existing chord" command, yes, I could imagine that *not* automatically flipping you into note input mode.
In reply to Why wouldn't you enter all by Marc Sabatella
Why not enter all the notes in one pass? Because that's not how I think. I typically start with a melody, then harmonize it. I'm surprised this is unusual.
Regarding changing pitch, that was a comment by Recorder485, not me. But I do that a good deal too. Here's an example. I start with a template measure, with say a series of eighth or sixteenth notes in voice one, and a series of half or quarter notes in voice 2. There might be a third voice as well. The measure may be taken from another part of the score, or it might be a simple template with all the notes in each voice at a single pitch. I paste this or repeat it for one or more measures where I'm going to edit the material.
Then I go to each note, and adjust its pitch and duration to be what I want.
This may sound like a strange way to use MuseScore but it is often the fastest process for me. When a piece has a lot of repetitive material, it is often more efficient to copy and edit than to enter the material anew.
In reply to Why wouldn't you enter all by Marc Sabatella
I often use spinalitys work mode, and agree with that reasoning.
One reason for adding chord notes later is that you might not know the chords at the time of entering the melody; in any event whatever work flow feels best for a given user should be supported.
Finally, my brain just doesn't remember to exit note input mode when I didn't enable it manually. As previously noted, I often have to undo changes made when I didn't realize I was still in note entry mode.
In reply to Interesting. I do this by spinality
Here is what I don't understand: If you proceed as you describe you will get the chords above the melody that is already there. Then you have to move them down into the proper octave. I don't see how that works very efficiently (from a typesetting perspective I mean, as a composing procedure it seems to be perfectly standard).
Why not work with voices, start a second voice to add the harmony (starting with the bass note this time)? This even allows you to have your lower voices rhythmically decoupled from the melody.
In reply to Here is what I don't by azumbrunn
Well, actually that is another annoyance -- I wish I could influence the choice of octave, so that the notes wound up in the correct place. (That's true even when adding new notes in a new voice -- my bass notes are almost always placed in the wrong octave.)
But as to your suggestion, most of the time I am writing guitar music and thus am already working with multiple voices on a single staff. The additional chord notes that I want to add relevant to this discussion are not generally separate voices as such, i.e. they are not like the actual distinct voices I'm already working with; if they were, I'd definitely want them as separate voices for the reasons you state. Rather, these are additional harmonic elements being added to one beat in one of the voices.
So in general, I do use multiple voices when there is true polyphony -- where I want to see rests wherever a voice is silent. But that's not the case when a chord should appear on one beat, but has no preceding or following material that corresponds to those added notes.
At times I do need to use additional non-polyphonic voices to enter a complex passage. I must then set the generated rests as 'hidden' so that the desired notes appear only where I want them. This often results in a complex, messy measure; but the result engraves properly so I'm glad I can do it.
Here's a snippet of a typical professional engraving. It has some of the elements I'm talking about.
In reply to Changing pitch of an existing by Marc Sabatella
Well, not in my case. ;o) I can't speak for every composer, but I quite frequently revise how the harmony is distributed during the orchestration process. As I work on a piece and write additional parts into a score, I will often find that I want to change the balance and so may move the third from the second violins, say, down an octave and give it to the viola. Or I might swap the root for the fifth in the cello for a 6/4 to get better voice-leading on the cadence. IOW, I am constantly dipping into different parts and measures, changing a note here or there without rewriting whole passages.
To me, it's a whole lot more logical to ask the user to type N when he DOES want to be in entry mode (as he will know when that is), than it is to oblige him to type a command to exit a mode he didn't intend to initiate (and might not realise he had!).
Obviously there are several points of view, though. Would this kind of thing be amenable to a 'Preferences' option, to allow each user to select the mode best suited to they way he works?
In reply to You've just entered a note, by Recorder485
It seems to me that you're requesting a sort of one-chord note input mode that quits as soon as you leave that chord. Is that right?
In reply to It seems to me that you're by Isaac Weiss
Zack--I'm not sure if you meant that question for me or for Spinality, but if you are asking me, the answer is no. Adding additional notes to a chord currently REQUIRES one to be in note-entry mode, which is logical (as it involves the creation of NEW notes).
What I would like is to be able to overwrite any single existing note from the computer keyboard while in edit mode, and not have the program flip automatically into entry mode when I type in the new pitch name.
In reply to Zack--I'm not sure if you by Recorder485
Okay, so that's exactly what I said.
In reply to Okay, so that's exactly what by Isaac Weiss
Hmmmm.... I'm getting confused here, but that happens often enough so why should today be any different? ;0)
I'm differentiating between ADDING new notes to a CHORD, and CHANGING the pitch of a SINGLE NOTE. Am I looking at this the wrong way? I know so little about programming language that I can't evaluate my own ignorance.
In reply to Hmmmm.... I'm getting by Recorder485
As mentioned previously, something like underlining or italics is vastly preferable to putting emphasized words in all caps.
In MuseScore, a multi-note chord and a single-note chord are both "chords," as they both refer to a greater-than-zero number of notes occurring at the same point. Typing a letter name with a note selected is not adjusting the existing note, it's adding a different one in its place. The only way to add a note is by going into note input mode; the only way to hypothetically go into note input mode for one note/chord and then not be in note input mode after that is, well, that's how I described it. Is that any clearer?
In reply to As mentioned previously, by Isaac Weiss
Ah. Sorry about the CAPS; as I explained to Nicolas privately, that's not in any way intended as 'shouting', it's just the lazy man's way to put emphasis on a single word. I live in Québec, so I write in both French and English all the time. For that reason, my default keyboard layout is Canadian Multilingual. That enables me to write 95% of what I need to write without needing to change to another keyboard. However, on this forum, keyboard shortcuts such as CTL+I or CTL+B don't work, but unfortunately, my default keyboard does not contain < or >, so I can't write the html tags needed to set something in boldface or italic or underscore it without changing to the U.S. English keyboard. I do that when necessary, but when just scribbling off a quick reply to someone, I get lazy and just use CAPS. Please don't be offended. I 'shout' very rarely...and when I do, there's no mistaking it for anything else! ;o)
Anyway, back to cases: Your explanation helps me understand the underlying structure better, so thanks for taking the trouble to educate me (again!). With that in mind, I would say that what I as a user would prefer is for MuseScore to go into Note Entry Mode only when I tell it to do so. That's the simplest way to put it, I think.
In reply to Ah. Sorry about the CAPS; as by Recorder485
Ah, I see. You can also make do with _fake_ markdown. Or just trust that all your words will come out fine in plain text, sentence case.
That would mean that you couldn't select a note—or a rest—and just type a new one anymore.
In reply to Ah, I see. You can also make by Isaac Weiss
I don't understand why not. Durations can be changed while not in entry mode; why not pitches? Sorry if that's yet another dumb question. ;o)
As for _fake_ markdown, I don't know how to do that, but if you have the time to explain it to me--by private message (we should probably stop cluttering up this thread with side issues)--I'd appreciate it greatly. I learned to write from Robert A. Heinlein--the unchallenged master of idiomatic dialogue--and I am constitutionally incapable of refraining from putting 'vocal' inflections into my texts. Anything that would make it easier for me to do that would be awesome.
In reply to I don't understand why not. by Recorder485
By "fake markdown," I just mean put _underscores_ or *asterisks* or even /slashes/ around a word, serving no actual formatting purpose, but making it visually distinctive without giving in to the standard SHOUTING technique.
Anyway, that would still let you change the pitch, going up or down with the arrow keys or changing accidentals. Unless you're requesting a sort of one-chord note input mode that quits as soon as you leave that chord...
In reply to As mentioned previously, by Isaac Weiss
From a usage standpoint, if I select an existing note and then use the keyboard to change that pitch, or to add a chord note via shift, I do not feel that I am entering note input mode. I feel that I am editing an existing element on the page. I don't care if, internally, this means that the system must enter note input mode. I would prefer if the system remained in "normal" (i.e. non-note-input) mode so that I could perform the same operation elsewhere using the same sequence of actions. By entering note input mode, the input paradigm changes and my next actions must be semantically different, even though in my head I am doing the same thing.
(Regarding SHOUTING, I think that the explanation of keyboard convenience makes it vastly preferable for the forum user to choose the most natural form of expression, provided that the meaning is clear and basic politeness is used. It's one thing when long phrases are set in caps, which can be annoying. But scolding a helpful user for an occasional well-intentioned caps use seems to miss the point of the forum. Well, just my opinion.)