Shape note enhancement

Thank you for the information! I believe I had seen something about the Sacred Harp project, but I had assumed that only the four shape notehead system was involved. I managed to download and install the plug-in. It seems to be an adequate solution that makes Finale severely overpriced for what I want to do. I wish the shape notes option would stay on, but I can choose it when I get sufficiently irritated with the round notes just as I have been doing with the eighth note beams. I hope the shared notehead bug is corrected soon.

Now, my biggest challenge with MuseScore is with final score formatting. I find that I often need to break measures in the middle to make phrasing easier for singers. I wish I could do it without losing the work that went into the end of the measure and having to redo it. The easiest way I have seen is to select the measure and select the number and type of counts for that measure. The extra notes should then go into the next measure containing only those notes. Otherwise, I would need to do the same to the next measure to make a kind of pick-up measure for the next system.

There could be some improvement in working with lyrics. I should be able to move an entire line of lyrics at a time instead of one syllable at a time. I would like more control over where the lyrics appear. Most of the time, I want them between the staves, but the bass lyrics always go below the bottom staff. I may need to learn more about layout setup.

The other challenge I face is how to get the score into a format I can use in a PowerPoint presentation. I have been editing and saving screen shots using Paint.

Keep up the great work. MuseScore is now about as easy to use as Finale and does some things better. MuseScore is easier to learn than Finale, however, I still have difficulty correcting my mistakes in certain situations, but I am learning ways to work around them. Usually, I end up deleting some (or a lot or all) of a measure and re-entering the notes. Complicated songs (the type I most like) are the most difficult to transcribe, but I guess that goes with the territory. MuseScore is now good enough for me to start recommending it to people. The rise of The Paperless Hymnal will probably drive a higher demand for MuseScore. Work on a Spanish version of The Paperless Hymnal has begun. Does MuseScore support elision of Spanish lyrics? I wish you well!

Sincerely,

JaimeWJr

Thank you for the recommendation. By the time I get to editing screen shots with Paint, most of my work is done. Since my artistic skills are primitive and limited, Paint suits me just fine. I use it even more than OpenOffice Draw. The other two Microsoft programs I use are WordPad and Notepad. Both usually meet my needs. Excel is a good program, but I usually use OpenOffice Calc instead. Simple is good! Why use a cannon when a BB gun will do the trick?

I used the Shape Note plug-in to convert my file back to normal round notes, and the noteheads were still not shared. However, when I converted the file back to 7 shape noteheads, the noteheads were shared correctly! I noticed that only the top staff changed. I may have begun the project with the wrong template, or I may need to select everything with Ctrl + A before trying to convert. I wish my other issues were as easy to overcome!

I have discovered that the Shape Note plug-in sometimes converts notes on the lower staff and sometimes doesn't. I believe that Sibelius may have a similar problem of only some noteheads converting. The correction of shared noteheads is temporary. Any change anywhere or even Ctrl + A will cause the shared noteheads to separate again.

Thank you for your suggestion! I had wondered about that, but I hadn't gotten around to trying it until today. I believe that technique will save me some work. I may even be able to eliminate using Paint completely in most cases. Unfortunately, WYSIWYG really is WYWIWYG. I was hoping that saving as .PNG would clean up some issues I saw on the screen, but the .PNG file had the same issues I was seeing on the screen. Once those are corrected, the .PNG route will be great! The main problem is at the end of the system. The last bar line is separated from the system and the first note or two in the last measure is sometimes appearing in the previous measure along with the lyrics. I wonder if making the last bar line invisible will help. I may try that. I may also try moving the margins closer to the edge of the paper, but I don't want the next measure to return to that system. These problems occur where I have split the measure between systems because of the phrasing of the lyrics. The best way to do that is to insert a blank measure before the first full measure of the next system. I change the actual count in the new measure to the value that will hold the necessary notes. I then copy the notes from the end of the previous measure into the new measure. The next step is to change the actual count in the previous measure to the value that will contain the notes for that measure. It would be nice if the notes from the end of that measure would bleed into the new measure without me having to copy them. This is one thing that Finale does well (but Finale PrintMusic doesn't!). The MuseScore problem is magnified if the time signatures are changed and made invisible, especially if display courtesy items is selected!

Thank you for your advice. Thank you very much for your work to make the seven shape system practical with MuseScore! For a Frenchman who doesn't know the American traditions, you did a much better job than the "experts" at Finale. Their Fa triangles are backward! However, I do prefer the way Finale allows me to select a Shape Note Hymn template and the notes are entered with the correct noteheads automatically (except Fa).

The church asked me to teach a two-month music class. When researching early notation and hymnals, I discovered the Sacred Harp system of shape notes. I have been using the more advanced Aiken seven shape system since the early sixties, and it was developed in the mid-nineteenth century. It was a marvelous American innovation to vocal music! I recently discovered some Web sites featuring Sacred Harp singing from around the country. The Smithsonian has published a brochure about both systems, but it seems to emphasize the Sacred Harp system. I will list URLs of sites that you can visit for more information. I attended the Foundation School of Church Music in 1974. The Singing School is another well-established school. Both teach the Aiken system of shape notes.

Shape Notes is a great name for your plug-in, but the primary description should not be Sacred Harp shape notes, since it is a more primitive and lesser known system. It would have disappeared long ago if there weren't groups that exist to keep it in use. The owner of the main publisher of that type of hymnal encourages them. Many hymnals have been and are still being published and widely used that utilize the Aiken system. Make sure your plug-in description mentions both systems.

I would like to show you examples, but I can't figure out how I did it before. I'll try again later.

The re-write problem occurs when I try to split a measure at the end of a system to create a kind of pick-up measure at the beginning of the next system because of the phrasing of the lyrics. The best way to do that is to insert a blank measure before the first full measure of the next system. I change the actual count in the new measure to the value that will hold the necessary notes. I then copy the notes from the end of the previous measure into the new measure. The next step is to change the actual count in the previous measure to the value that will contain the notes for that measure. It would be nice if the notes from the end of that measure would bleed into the new measure without me having to copy them. This is one thing that Finale does well (but Finale PrintMusic doesn't!). Somewhere in this process, some notes will disappear. I am unable to insert them again. I have to erase that measure and re-enter all the notes. I have discovered that I can copy the offending notes beforehand and then paste them into the offending measure after the notes disappear. That seems to override whatever kept me from inserting the notes again. Sometimes two measures lose notes. Then I find a similar measure to copy and paste or I undo back to find the notes again, copy them, then redo back to where they disappear, then paste them back. That is better and faster than erasing and re-entering those notes and lyrics.

Elision is having the last syllable of one word and the first syllable of the next word share a note. It really helps me to see a symbol. A hanging tie (a curve like a smile) is usually used for that.

The control click worked to move a line of lyrics, so that is solved satisfactorily. Thank you!

Here is a link to The Paperless Hymnal site: //www.paperlesshymnal.com/ . They have published their tenth volume. The photo of The Paperless Hymnal in use was taken at my alma mater.

Himnos en Pantalla is the Spanish version of The Paperless Hymnal. //www.himnosenpantalla.com/ I looked at Himno de Bienvenida. They probably used Finale because a few of the Fa triangles are backward, but they managed to get most of them corrected. They are using underscores for elisions. They are now in their fourth selection! I know the songleader in the photograph.

Here is a Sacred Harp site: //fasola.org/ . Here, you can hear recordings of Sacred Harp singing. //www.pilgrimproduction.org/sacredharp1.html

Here is the Smithsonian lesson about shape note singing. //www.smithsonianeducation.org/educators/lesson_plans/shapenote/SIYC_ShapeNote_Oct2000.pdf

I attended this school in 1974. //www.foundmusic.org/

This singing school site also has links to great resources. //www.singingschool.org/ This one to Enos E. Dowling Hymnal Collection is my favorite. //www.lincolnchristian.edu/library/hymnals/hymnals-table.php?sortby=Year It allows you to actually see old hymnals. With some ingenuity, you can read the introductions and prefaces of most of them. Some have music instruction included. Some use numeric notation. One uses numeral noteheads. Many of them ignored notation entirely (especially those by Alexander Campbell)!

I hope you enjoy these sites and learn more about the American traditions of shape note singing!

Thank you for your encouragement and vote of confidence. I need a little more experience first. I have only been able to complete three songs using MuseScore. I have only used the Shape Note plug-in in one song. I need to use it in another song to see if another template will avoid the problem of some notes not converting. My technique is to enter the notes only for the stanza but notes and lyrics for the chorus/refrain. Then I copy and paste the whole score for the other stanzas and add their lyrics. The song is saved as .PNG files and then inserted into PowerPoint slides. The result looks good. If I have difficulty with the formatting in the chorus/refrain, I get the first one to look good, get the others to play correctly, and use the first chorus/refrain in PowerPoint for all of the stanzas.

That title change should clear up misconceptions.

I agree. It must have been a technique required by different software. I removed the time signature changes and now all split measures are accomplished by changing the actual count of the measure. I need to do that before entering notes to avoid problems from changing them afterwards. However, when I copy and paste my work, those changes aren't copied, and I end up changing them again in the copied measures and dealing with problems then.

I decided to make the last barline invisible except for the double barlines at the ends of the stanzas and choruses. I also put end of system and end of page commands at the ends of the systems, then I reduced the left and right margins of the page.

When I looked carefully, I noticed that shortened stems don't always connect with their noteheads, especially Do from above. Fortunately, most of them needed to be flipped.

Apparently, inline examples aren't allowed after the first message in a thread. I will have to start a new bug thread to show the shared notehead issue.

I will try to attach the result of my work. I don't know if I can upload a PowerPoint file. The song is copyrighted, but our congregation has a license that should allow us to use it there. For a combination of reasons, this is probably the most complicated song I am likely to transcribe.

I hope the upload of the PowerPoint file worked. That is the result of my efforts on a complicated song.

I began the bug report about the shared noteheads at //musescore.org/en/node/12218 called Shared noteheads aren't shared.

The last barline problem seemed to be more because of the limitations of spacing the lyrics than with the spacing of the notes. I was trying to select a system and Shift+{ or Shift+} to change the spread. I had to put the end system command or end page command on the last measure of the system to keep the next pick-up measure from returning. It would give me strange results when I tried to change the spread with only one measure selected. With those commands in place, I could change the left and right page margins to get the staff to extend beyond all the notes. If you can see my PowerPoint slides, they look great now! My problem might not be so easy to solve if I had to print the scores on paper rather than create the slides.

I am about half done with another song. I never learned if you were able to view my PowerPoint version of my last song. I have encountered the same problem as before with the Shape Note plug-in. Most of the notes in the bass/tenor staff were not converted to shaped noteheads. It appears that voice 4 does not convert. Apparently, my way of thinking is not supported by MuseScore. It seems natural to me that sopranos should be voice 1, altos voice 2, tenors voice 3, and basses voice 4. However, in order to get sopranos and altos to share stems without eighth notes appearing to be sixteenth notes (likewise for tenors and basses) I enter sopranos and altos as voice 1 (voice 4 for tenors and basses) except when I need separate stems. It would be great if I could select an option to enter all four voices separately and MuseScore would automatically share stems correctly except where explicitly specified to use separate stems. If the option is not selected, MuseScore would operate as it does now. If you prefer, present operation could be a selectable option and my suggested operation could be the default. I need the notation to be as I enter it, but it would help some people to hear their part alone, so having each part as a separate voice would also be helpful. I will attach my song file as it is now.

Thank you for your suggestions. I could switch voices for altos and tenors or change the default directions, but hiding flags could be tedious.

You wanted to see what was involved in transcribing complicated songs. I try to get the score to match what I am copying. Hymnals (especially old ones) don't use beams and share stems except on occasions when separate stems are necessary (as in noteheads are a second apart or unison, or voices cross, or there is a counter melody).

I'll look forward to the voice 4 correction. You're doing great work!

Thank you very much. I used the new plugin and all voices were converted this time!

My current challenge is that some lyrics aren't copied. I enter the music for the stanzas and the music and lyrics for the chorus/refrain. I then copy them for the second, third, etc. stanzas. I noticed that some of the second voice lyrics in the chorus weren't copied. As I explained earlier, I can use the first stanza chorus/refrain for all stanzas, but perhaps this is a bug that should be reported and corrected. I will include the file that resulted after I copied the music and added the lyrics for the other stanzas. My next step is to format the systems for the Paperless Hymnal format of two systems per PowerPoint slide. I have learned that the hymnal format arrangement must sometimes be modified to work in the Paperless Hymnal format. I am now more of an editor instead of merely a transcriptionist!