Use of MS.com scores?/Old versus mew versions of MS
Hello MS Forum. In view of the labor involved in fixing my Opera the Anasazi 1.3 files after they became MS 2.0.3 files, I would like to know if there is any way to download the MS.com scores, which are fine having been uploaded from the good 1.3 files, and make them be usable files mainly to to re-upload to MS.com and send to You Tube with the Hide Empty Staves version. which of course is so much better for people to follow. In view of the thousands of views the files are getting on MS.com and also from my website, I feel I should make this opera score divided into different files look as good as possible
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Also, at the risk of being called technically challenged again, I would like to present a problem: Even on my memory stick, which was supposed to preserve the 1.3 files intact as such, almost all of the original 1.3 files are now 2.0.3 files, with layout messed up by that version of MS. On my desktop and computer there are only about 5 of 14 files still as 1.3 files. And, yes, maybe this was my stupid fault for opening them with 2+ where they morphed into 2+ files. I trusted MS with the new version of MS and felt they should become 2+ files. That was before I saw what happens when that it done, with layout problems occurred. I should have MADE COPIES of the 1.3 files, not using the originals it appears, a bad mistake on my part. The government has asked me to teach composition here to some Vets, and I will warn them about this, or anyone who plans to write large scores on MS. WHICH LEADS TO A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: I have heard of people using old versions of Sibelius for years. Can former versions o MS , when not morphed into newer versions, also be used for years? For instance, when I do get all the 1.3 files OK in MS+ versions, would I be able to use these MS+ versions indefinitely even after they are made obsolete by say, a future MS 3?i I would never go through layout problems again by trying to update the 2+ files into some newer MS version.Will these files continue to work as they do on Sibelius etc.?
Comments
1.3 files are never changed into 2.0 files automagically, unless you (or someone with access to them) opens them in 2.0 and saves them overwriting the existing 1.3 files. MuseScore 2.0 tries to avoid that, with a messages that the file already exists, if you override that warning, well, you got what you asked for.
If hoewver, you do open a 1.3 file with 2.0, layout will be different, some just slightly but others will be sigificantly different, depending how much manual tweaks you used in 1.3.
And yes, you can download your score from MuseScore.com, just press save instead of open (otherwise most probably they open in 2.0), and if they really are 1.3 files, they should open in 1.3 just fine.
I've just tried it with your
https://musescore.com/user/68195/scores/1059426
But re-uploading them probably converts them into 2.0 files, I'm not sure here, but as far as I know MuseScore.com does use the 2.0 Rendering, at least for all newly uploaded scores.
Trying with the above file failes due to it containing corruptions, which 2.0 detects but 1.3 did not. (Measure 160 Staff 19 incomplete. Expected: 6/8; Found: 7/8)
You can use MuseScore 1.3 for the next 100 years and longer, provided you still have a Computer capabale of running an OS that is supported by MuseScore 1.3.
Same for 2.0, once 3.0 got released, You can even run (any version <=)1.3, and 2.x and 3.x on the same computer at the same time.
I do keep 1.3 and 2.0 installed, and also keep a collection of all portable app Version around, just in case I need them.
In reply to 1.3 files are never changed by Jojo-Schmitz
"I'm not sure here, but as far as I know MuseScore.com does use the 2.0 Rendering, at least for all newly uploaded scores"
That's correct. MuseScore.com always uses the latest stable MuseScore version. When an old 1.x file is uploaded, the uploader gets a notice that it's advised to upgrade your MuseScore to the latest version in order to get a consistent rendering of the score.
In reply to "I'm not sure here, but as by Thomas
That's what I though. But it seems the rendering takes place when the score gets uploaded (and not 'on the fly' when accessed), and that is why 1.x scores on MuseScore.com still look like they did when produced in 1.3.
Yes, to be absolutely clear: the mere act of opening a 1.3 file does *not*, absolutely never under any circumstance, magically turn the file into a 2.0 file. Only *you* can do that, by explicitly choosing the *save* the file from within 2.0, and then explicitly choosing to overwrite the existing file (it will absolutely *not* under circumstance default to doing so).
And also, it's not good to be the habit of thinking that 2.0 "messed up" the layout or that "problems" were introduced by 2.0. As mentioned, there are changes, but if the file was created correctly in the first place, those changes should virtually always be for the better. Every case i can remember where you have pointed out a difference was because of an error in the 1.3 file - either something done incorrectly that only happened to work, or something done deliberately to workaround a bug in 1.3 that has since been fixed.
Which is to say, 2.0 didn't *cause* the problems. The problems were *already there* in your scores because of things you did when creating them. I don't tell you this to criticize you, but to help you understand how to prepare for 3.0. There will without a doubt be differences in how your scores render between MuseScore 2 and MuseScore 3. If the file is created correctly, these should usually just be improvements. But if your score contains errors - whether something done accidentally that just happened to work or done to work around a limitation in MuseScore 2 - then these will likely look bad in MuseScore 3. So try not to repeat the same sorts of mistakes you made with your original 1.3 versions.
The same is true of pretty much any one using any major program, BTW. I had to revisit older Finale files quite regularly if I wanted them to continue to look good in current versions. I learned a lot from the process, though, and with each new version there were few errors in my scores I needed to fix in order to keep them looking good.
And that, FWIW, is the message to take to your students - not to warn them that software will arbitrarily "mess up" their scores, but instead, to warn them to do things correctly in the first place.
In reply to Yes, to be absolutely clear: by Marc Sabatella
Yes, I myself referred to some "stupid" mistakes I made. But all I want to do at this point is have something (scores) that work NOW and will work INDEFINiTELY. I would never consider again trying to update large scores into some future version of MS. When I get the opera files all done in MS 2.0.3, which I am working on, I do NOT want to have to go through another process with a never MS version. I just want the 2+ files to work and NEVER be morphed into another version. What composer would want to think he.she had scores done, but later they might not work? I want something now that will work for printing, etc . also. Also, I will not be able to download MS.com scores (from 1.3 files), which work beautifully, whether or not they were done "Kosher" in getting that result, since I cannor fix them to Hide Empty Staves version and re-upload to MS.com since MS.com will NOT accept 1.3 files now! (I should have uploaded them with the H.E.S. version to start with, another mistake on my part admittedly.) Anyway, I have been told in an above Comment that the 2+ version could be used for a hundred years, so I hope that is true (maybe not literally!). So, is that true? Also, many Layout errors were not my fault-such as Timpani trills for tremolo being displaced all over the place in 2+ that were created properly, etc.
Rest assured I am not saying anything negative about MS to any students. In fact, I told the Feds we would want to be working with MS at times, and the Veterans are excited about doing so! (Most of them are beginners, just learning to even read music, etc.) They like it that I myself am a US Veteran.
In reply to Yes, I myself referred to by delhud2
If you manage to keep your computer running, and keep the scores and the version of MuseScore you created them with for the next 100 years, you will get the same result when opening These scores with that Version in 100 years.
Chances are that you hard drive or computer or OS won't live that long though. Chances are that you won't live that long either ;-)
Whether MuseScore.com still exists in 100 years from now is also a question...
In reply to Yes, I myself referred to by delhud2
@delhud, just one idea. As said before and elsewhere, you can burn to a CD:
the portable version of MuseScore (ex. 2.0.3);
A folder with mscz files (they take up little space);
A folder with PDF files exported from MsS.
Any text documents and images related to the content.
In the attachment you can see my 'old' attempt to spread the software among my acquaintances. Of course, considering that English is not my language and be indulgent.
Regards
In reply to @delhud, just one idea. As by Shoichi
It is also questionably whether CDs last 100 years. And you still need a CD drive and a computer running an OS that is supported by MuseScore 2.0. CD drives are coming out of fashion currently many new computers don't have them anymore.
But having the scores on a CD at least makes sure they won't get modified
In reply to Yes, I myself referred to by delhud2
If you create a score in 1.3, and then never choose to overwrite that file with 2.0, then that file will continue to be openable in 1.3 for as long as you still have a running computer with 1.3 installed.
Similarly, if you create a score in 2.0, and then never choose to overwrite that file with 3.0, then that file continue to be openable in 2.0 for as long as you still have a running computer with 2.0 installed.
Scores created in 1.3 will be openable in 2.0 but might look a bit different. The more careful you are in creating the score, the better the chance that the changes will be only improvements, but sure, every once in a while there might need to be a few small adjustments no matter how careful you are, *if* you want to use the score in 2.0. But you always have the option of just continuing to use 1.3 for that score should you need to edit it further.
Similarly, scores create in 2.0 will be openable in 3.0 but might look a bit different. Again, the more careful you are in creating the score, the better the chance that the changes will be only improvements, but sure, every once in a while there might need to be a few small adjustments no matter how careful you are, *if* you want to use the score in 3.0. But you will always have the option of just continuing to use 2.0 for that score should you need to edit it further.
None of this should be at all surprising or mysterious - it is exactly what we have explained many times, and exactly how virtually every other computer program ever has worked.
In reply to If you create a score in 1.3, by Marc Sabatella
"the more careful" is mostly equivalent to "the closer to the default settings", I guess
In reply to "the more careful" is mostly by Jojo-Schmitz
OK, Thanks for all the comments, I will have to study all of them and will Reply later.
In reply to "the more careful" is mostly by Jojo-Schmitz
Sticking to defaults where there is no compelling reason to change them, or at least relying on global style settings as opposed to individual manual adjustments where possible, definitely is one good strategy with respect to future-proofing, yes.
Of course, sometimes individual manual adjustments are needed to get exactly the results you want. Still, the trick is to try to do so in a way more likely to be relatively future-proof. The classic example: don't attach a symbol to one note in your score then drag it a long ways to appear as if it is connected to another note. The distance between those two notes may well change in the future, so that manual adjustment may no longer produce the intended result.
It's still the case that sometimes improvement to the defaults in future versions of MuseScore will render manual adjustments made in previous versions inappropriate and therefore in need of resetting, or at least updating. But the more careful one is in when and how one performs these adjustments in the first place, the better the chances that the score will simply look better with each version.
In reply to If you create a score in 1.3, by Marc Sabatella
OK, Thank you, you answered my question. So I will be able to have more confidence in continuing to use MS+ versions. Actually, I have more confidence in preserving stuff on paper/printing then any other way, even though paper is also ephemeral. Also, if you get stuff published by an established publisher, you could hope that they preserve the stuff. As for my computer, I know it will not last indefinitely, and have been advised to get an External Hard drive and transfer MS files etc. to it before my hard drive runs out of space. (Not far in the future.) i got the idea of people using old versions of stuff from an opera producer in my city of Grand Junction, CO USA, who has been using an older version of Sibelius for years in his professional activities. He likes it and has no interest in newer versions, apparently. I thought it was interesting that you continued to update your Finale versions, though.