fret diagrams can hold more than 6 strings, that's fine, but the dialog doesn't let you see more than 8 strings, so for a 10 string guitar accord diagram it's useless.
Indeed, it is difficult (not impossible) to create diagrams for more than 8 strings. If you really want them before the dialog is changed it is possible. You just add strings until you can see the ones you need to mark frets on (because the range of strings which are visible moves as you add strings) then reduce the number of strings to the correct number after marking the fingering.
As an aside, I haven't seen any discussion on the range of instruments these diagrams should cover. The dialog has an upper limit of 99 strings and 99 frets ! Now that would be a challenging instrument to play ;-) and the diagram would be almost as difficult to read.
I must admit I wouldn't have expected players of 10 string guitars to use fret diagrams. It seems zephyrus knows otherwise.
If diagrams for more than 8 strings are needed it looks as if either a horizontal scroll bar or better, a resizable frame in the dialog window is also needed.
I've not changed the category setting for this issue but to me this is more of a feature request (to overcome the current limitation) rather than a bug.
yeah the 99 fret instrument would be the next challenge to make for my guitar builder :)
i've created this issue because the GUI doesn't resize when you add more strings to the diagram. The left side box of the popup window is almost not used and can be downsized to see more strings. Perhaps right/left arrow keys beneath the add string element were more consistant. You already have them for scrolling the frets up/down, though they do not function correctly when you add more frets with the need to scroll <---another thing... perhaps a smart redesign of the fret diagram properties can fix all the issues at once ;)
@lasonic
This was not a theoretical complain I am already using 10 string fretboard diagrams :) A little explanation :
Fretboard diagrams are mistakenly seen as graphical notations of strummed accords. That's not completely right because you also can show scales and complex tonal dependencies.
Therefor it is good to have covered all strings of multistringed instruments.
Your question how many strings frets are needed:
(See pic below) my special build instrument has 10 strings and 30 frets. As it goes for frets this is the physical maximum (32-33).
I know of chiavi guitars with 13 strings, so 30 frets and a maximum of 13 strings also used by renaissance lutes are needed. A minimum of 2 strings for showing off intervals should be ok.
As for theorbe and other historical instruments with more strings, these are normally bordun strings without frets underneath.
I mainly write classical music so I don't know about the needs of popular music players but it should be the same.
If some help is needed just ask! :)
I think it would be useful to make a distinction between the two different types of "fret diagram" and their use. Whilst the term "fret diagram" could equally apply to both types, zephyrus is describing what I would call a "fingerboard diagram" and I notice he uses the word "fretboard" not just "fret".
The fingerboard diagram could extend to the whole range of the instrument and show all the potential notes of a particular scale or chord. For that use the maximum number of strings would need to cover all the stoppable strings of any fretted instrument. To make them useful you really need to be able to display the note names or the root and intervals from it on each fret marked.
The other type, which is the more common meaning of fret diagram, shows which frets need to be used together to create a particular chord whether it is strummed or played as some form of arpeggio. In this case it is logically only possible to have one note per string and the range of frets displayed would be limited to the number of frets which could be spanned by one hand whether in 'first position' or right up near the sound hole. I've never seen a diagram like this covering more than 6 strings (and have just tried searching the web for something wider) as they tend to be used for 6-string or 12-string guitars (the latter of course being 6 courses), banjos, mandolins, basses etc.
The current fret diagram implementation is clearly intended to create the second type. You can't mark a string at more than one fret and the final diagram is placed on the score in the way that those are used.
The first type, which can be used for mapping out the whole fretboard, is useful but I think it would be confusing to try and set parameters for that within the current implementation. I would think it would be easier (from a users perspective) to have a separate dialog for generating them if needed. It's not clear from the road map page if the original intention was to cover both these types of diagram or not.
To have two types is ok also but the need of chord diagrams over more than 6 strings, sort of scalable thing like its now is defenitly needed here, too!:) I play chords with 8 string fingering.
Also a chord over 6 strings is common but which pair of of 6 strings of multi string instruments do you mean? You can also play on the 6 lower strings...you see more flexibility can be helpful.
Comments
Indeed, it is difficult (not impossible) to create diagrams for more than 8 strings. If you really want them before the dialog is changed it is possible. You just add strings until you can see the ones you need to mark frets on (because the range of strings which are visible moves as you add strings) then reduce the number of strings to the correct number after marking the fingering.
As an aside, I haven't seen any discussion on the range of instruments these diagrams should cover. The dialog has an upper limit of 99 strings and 99 frets ! Now that would be a challenging instrument to play ;-) and the diagram would be almost as difficult to read.
I must admit I wouldn't have expected players of 10 string guitars to use fret diagrams. It seems zephyrus knows otherwise.
If diagrams for more than 8 strings are needed it looks as if either a horizontal scroll bar or better, a resizable frame in the dialog window is also needed.
I've not changed the category setting for this issue but to me this is more of a feature request (to overcome the current limitation) rather than a bug.
yeah the 99 fret instrument would be the next challenge to make for my guitar builder :)
i've created this issue because the GUI doesn't resize when you add more strings to the diagram. The left side box of the popup window is almost not used and can be downsized to see more strings. Perhaps right/left arrow keys beneath the add string element were more consistant. You already have them for scrolling the frets up/down, though they do not function correctly when you add more frets with the need to scroll <---another thing... perhaps a smart redesign of the fret diagram properties can fix all the issues at once ;)
Can someone give a sensible and documented maximum and minimum for number of strings and frets?
@zephyrus was it a theoritical complain/remark or would you use 10 strings in a fretboard diagram?
@lasonic
![image.jpg]( "image.jpg")
This was not a theoretical complain I am already using 10 string fretboard diagrams :) A little explanation :
Fretboard diagrams are mistakenly seen as graphical notations of strummed accords. That's not completely right because you also can show scales and complex tonal dependencies.
Therefor it is good to have covered all strings of multistringed instruments.
Your question how many strings frets are needed:
(See pic below) my special build instrument has 10 strings and 30 frets. As it goes for frets this is the physical maximum (32-33).
I know of chiavi guitars with 13 strings, so 30 frets and a maximum of 13 strings also used by renaissance lutes are needed. A minimum of 2 strings for showing off intervals should be ok.
As for theorbe and other historical instruments with more strings, these are normally bordun strings without frets underneath.
I mainly write classical music so I don't know about the needs of popular music players but it should be the same.
If some help is needed just ask! :)
I think it would be useful to make a distinction between the two different types of "fret diagram" and their use. Whilst the term "fret diagram" could equally apply to both types, zephyrus is describing what I would call a "fingerboard diagram" and I notice he uses the word "fretboard" not just "fret".
The fingerboard diagram could extend to the whole range of the instrument and show all the potential notes of a particular scale or chord. For that use the maximum number of strings would need to cover all the stoppable strings of any fretted instrument. To make them useful you really need to be able to display the note names or the root and intervals from it on each fret marked.
The other type, which is the more common meaning of fret diagram, shows which frets need to be used together to create a particular chord whether it is strummed or played as some form of arpeggio. In this case it is logically only possible to have one note per string and the range of frets displayed would be limited to the number of frets which could be spanned by one hand whether in 'first position' or right up near the sound hole. I've never seen a diagram like this covering more than 6 strings (and have just tried searching the web for something wider) as they tend to be used for 6-string or 12-string guitars (the latter of course being 6 courses), banjos, mandolins, basses etc.
The current fret diagram implementation is clearly intended to create the second type. You can't mark a string at more than one fret and the final diagram is placed on the score in the way that those are used.
The first type, which can be used for mapping out the whole fretboard, is useful but I think it would be confusing to try and set parameters for that within the current implementation. I would think it would be easier (from a users perspective) to have a separate dialog for generating them if needed. It's not clear from the road map page if the original intention was to cover both these types of diagram or not.
To have two types is ok also but the need of chord diagrams over more than 6 strings, sort of scalable thing like its now is defenitly needed here, too!:) I play chords with 8 string fingering.
Also a chord over 6 strings is common but which pair of of 6 strings of multi string instruments do you mean? You can also play on the 6 lower strings...you see more flexibility can be helpful.
This should be fixed. 82164ab1c2
It's fixed. Thank you lasconic!
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.