MIDI-Import, Key signatures, Measure changes, tuplets, dividing staffs

Anonymous
• Apr 29, 2009 - 05:56

Hello everybody, I am new here.
Every item marked with "+ + " at the beginning raises a question.
I am running MuseScore Version 0.9.4, Revision 1518, downloaded this week.
In Cakewalk Sonar 4 "Producers Edition" I had created a larger piece of which I need to have a printed score.
As I had encountered many troubles with Sonar's scoring (limited number of possible dynamic entries, wrong display of tuplets larger than triplets) I had found MuseScore.
So what I am doing is:
1.) I run the application and close the demo.
2.) I click "open" --> browse to the "Cakewalk Projects" and select the .MID version of my piece.
3.) I am prompted to select "shortest note" and select 1/64.
4.) The tune comes up. The title does not appear, and between staff 1 and 2 the subtitle is displayed. No trouble, I move it on top over first staff. I cerated a new page with the title.
+ + 5.) The strings of course need much space. I had, in the original .mid-file in Sonar, one track for the strings. Can I divide the staff "strings" in 2 parts to have a G-clef for the upper half, and a F-clef for the lower? (I'd feel comfortable in the dividing point is at c'.)
6.) Some instruments are in the wrong clef, for example in G-clef, when they should be in F-clef.
7.) I select "Create / clefs" and drag the appropriate clefs to the systems. Notes are adapted to the new clef.
8.) The imported file is in a-minor. The imported and created score file has the property "sounds as notated". Some of the staffs appear without key signature, which is correct for the key a-minor. Others however have the signature of c sharp minor, and the notes therein are enharmonically changed: f is written as e sharp, e is written as d double sharp, c appears as b sharp and so on.
9.) I select "create / key signatures" and drag the appropriate signatures (that is, no sharps, no flats) to the staffs with the wrong signatures.
+ + 10.) The sharps disappear, but the notes are still being displayed with the former enharmonic values. Do I have to adjust every single note now?
+ + 11.) Later in the piece I have a cadence for which I had chosen in the original .mid-file (in Sonar) irregular measure changes: 17/16, 15/16, 5/8, returning then to the normal measures. Going to that place in the score I find the measure changes are at the right place, but the contents of the measures are completely wrong after the 2 measures in 17/16.
The values in the measures are then: 7/8 instead of 15/16, 7/16 instead of 5/8, 17/16 instead of 4/4. How can I correct that?
+ + 12.) Then follows a passage with tuplets. There should be 2 triplets, followed by 4 1/16-notes, followed by a quintuplet (5 1/16 in the time of 1 quarter), then a septuplet (7 1/16 in the time of 1 quarter). Instead, there are sometimes chords created of 2 notoes which originally follow each other. How to adjust that, please?
+ + 12a) Originally, there were a lot of triplets in the bass line, as well as in a part of the drumset. Non of them reappears in the score. How to rearrange that?
+ + 14.) The drum notation: I have the same trouble that the note forms can be selected, but they are not changed in the score.
Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you.


Comments

Since you are getting pretty advanced with MuseScore, I would propose you use the latest prerelease which you can find at http://prereleases.musescore.org Some of the issues might have been fixed already.

Would it be possible to provide your MIDI file? This was, it will be easier to reproduce your problems and fix them.

Thanks.

MadMusicologist
Apr 29, 2009 - 20:19

In reply to by MadMusicologist

Installed musescore-r1770.exe and did not find any changes in the items I have been posting before.
Drum notes: you will find that for all Drums I have various notes: due to a "Vienna Soundfont" sampling file which is playing my drum sounds instead of the standard GeneralMidiDrum sounds. (Pls. refer to the sound-link I previously posted.)
The measure changes occur starting from measure 89, with the 15/16 being displayed with the notes of a 7/8.
The following tuplets should appear from measure 93 in Clarinet and strings.
The .JPG shows more errors: compare Sonar's piano roll, and note windows with the MuseScore screenshot. Measure 9 and following are full of mistakes, the added note values never make up a 4/4 measure.
Thanks for your patience with me.
MadMusicologist

Attachment Size
BalqadishaNotMuseScore.MID 31.59 KB
MuseScoreScreen.jpg 1.23 MB

MIDI is not an ideal format for scorewriters since it doesn't not save any information about keys, clefs, etc. (see [[nodetitle:export]] for more details). If Cakewalk can export to MusicXML I would suggest that instead.

MadMusicologist
Apr 30, 2009 - 05:38

In reply to by David Bolton

Hello,
you say MIDI is not an ideal format.
Cakewalk's Sonar 4 PE does not allow to "save as" .xml. Only internal formats and "MIDI format 0", and "MIDI format 1", I've checked this again.
So you suggest a converting software "MIDI to XML"? So then, which one, please?
But I think, it is not the good solution to shift the issue to file formats. If MuseScore allows importing of .MID, it should do so on a reliable basis.
Otherwise I would have to blow the job entirely.
Bye
M.M.

It's just a matter of information or bits. MIDI format does not contain all the information needed to render a score.
To keep it simple, MIDI is just storing "at this time you have to play this pitch during this period". So quarter? half ? 8th ? There is nothing in MIDI, the program have to guess. Key signature? The same, the program have to guess with something like if there is a lot of Bb but no Eb ... Same for G clef and F clef etc... or voices, or staves
So MID to musicXML or MID import in musescore it's quite the same, the program have to guess information that are not stored in the MIDI file. Some programs might guess better.
Here is an old comparison of some softwares regarding MIDI to sheet music notation conversion (I'm not convinced the test is accurate, because it might depends of how the MIDI file is structured and what information you care the most)
http://www.skytopia.com/project/articles/notation.html

MadMusicologist
Apr 30, 2009 - 10:25

In reply to by [DELETED] 5

Thanks for your suggestions, I would have to try them all out - but first I will do some more tests with MuseScore, I do feel slightly obliged to the team for all the suggestions I had received previously.
Bye
M.M.

In reply to by [DELETED] 5

If your main aim is to produce a good looking score, midi is clearly not the format to use. However, it does have facilities for indicating key signatures precisely and stating where notes start and end down to the precision of 1/480 of a quarter note (if you use quarter note=480 tick as MuseScore does), provided that the prgrams producing/importing them don't try to be too clever. See http://musescore.org/en/node/1583#comment-3478 item 9.

MadMusicologist
May 2, 2009 - 22:03

In reply to by [DELETED] 5

Hi, thanks again, I checked the two programs which are stated in your skytopia suggestion, and as I am running out of time, I made a decision for now. But I shall try from time to time to see what's happening with MuseScire and I shall keep on sending in my questions. For now, I still keep the question open: It is possible to save information about key signatures in a MIDI file, so when I put my example file at "a minor" right at the beginning, why Muse score edits the score with various key signatures such as c sharp monir, f sharp minoe and the like, while other parts in the same score are in correct signature?
This error creates a lot of useless and exhausting work while editing the score.
Then: In MIDI there are precise informations on velocity, loudness and so son, why is it not possible to convert these data into articulation symbols like fff, mp, f, or pp, crescendo and decrescendo, and so on?
You have a very interesting proeject, but with so many "building sites" open, I can not use it right now.
Sorry, see you.
M.M.

In reply to by MadMusicologist

I had a little puzzle to work out after importing a MIDI file into MuseScore.

The original score has a 1/8 note pickup bar, but it was not created when the score was imported into MuseScore. What I did was to create a new score with the same number of bars, time and key signature along with an 1/8 note pickup bar. I was pleased to find it cut and pasted perfectly into the proper format, including the pickup bar.

If there's a simpler way of doing this, please pass it along.

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