How do you add these lines in a musescore?
I don't know if they're slurs or ties. I couldn't find a way to do it. I'd really appreciate the help. I have attached an image:
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This is a common notation for "let ring". You generally need to add an invisible grace note/chord after and then add ties (which can get a bit messy).
There are a number of discussions of this e.g. https://musescore.org/en/node/281225
In reply to This is a common notation… by memeweaver
Or the fact that some copyist forgot the quarter rest in the lower staff suggests that this might be incorrect altogether, This appears to be for piano. I think a pedal marking would be better. You can't let the whole notes ring if you have to take your finger off of the keys to play the next notes.
In reply to Or the fact that some… by bobjp
This let-ring notation is very common, particularly in Russian/Soviet scores (including those from French and German publishers). I have transcribed dozens of scores from the late 19th to late 20th centuries that use it extensively. It's very time-consuming to notate in Musescore with invisible grace-notes, especially as they can't be copied to duplicate through the score.
The omission of rests in some voices is an even more common practice (intentional or not) . Sometimes it's almost necessary for denser scores with multiple voices in each stave.
In reply to This let-ring notation is… by memeweaver
I don't doubt that it was used. But if this is piano, how is it played? Is it used any more?
I don't mind learning something different, but there needs to be a reason for it. If it's because, "That's the way they notated it." don't forget that instruments and playing techniques have changed from the 19th century.
In reply to I don't doubt that it was… by bobjp
As I wrote, it's in scores "from the late 19th to late 20th centuries" , some of which are jazz rather than classical. So yes it still used - and IIRC it's in some 21st century jazz piano editions that I have. As I also noted there's a number of discussions about this on Musescore (search on "let ring", and it doesn't just pertain to piano.
The piano hasn't really changed much since the late 19th century, apart from specialised models that have enhanced string and pedal mechanisms, that actually make this sort of compositional requirement MORE easy to achieve. Whatever the case, we have to deal with scores from all eras. An editor or copyist leaving out a composer's expressed intent is not doing anyone a favour.
In reply to As I wrote, it's in scores … by memeweaver
As a composer and performer I can tell you some interesting things.
Once a piece leaves the composers desk, all bets are off. The composer can mark the piece however he wants. But it is up to the performer to bring the piece to life. Sure the performer should try to understand what the composer has tried to convey. Every conductor brings their own touch to any particular composition. I'm sure you have heard different renditions of the same piece. Some radically so. Virgil Fox played totally different from Biggs.
I understand let ring. I question the possibility of actually playing this example on the piano. What was the composer trying to convey? I'm not talking about leaving out the composer's intent. I would be interested finding a better way to express it. I realize that that is not the job of the copyist.
But consider that many Baroque solo concertos came down to us as a solo line over a figured bass. Small groups played this kind of thing so often that they didn't need parts written out. Much like some music today. So what is a copyist to do with these pieces.
Just because A publisher 100 years ago marked something a certain way doesn't mean that is how the composer marked it. I see variations between old scores all the time.
In reply to As a composer and performer… by bobjp
You are not telling me anything I don't know. I haven't spent my time copying 350 classical piano scores without making my own observations, or without being a performer and composer myself for nearly half a century. Probaby 90% of the hand-engraved scores I have worked with have obvious errors (usually in timing values of notes and rests) and likely errors (inconsistent additions and omissions of articulations and dynamics in repeated passages). These sorts of errors are less likely when working with software.
However I am not sure what your point is disputing us replicating these let ring score markings in Musescore. If you can't query the composer directly (or listen to composer-approved recordings) then putting anything else down on the page is blurring the interpretive intent. As you say, ultimately the performing interpreter will make their own decisions. If you don't have the skills to pull it off at the piano, then step aside.
"Just because A publisher 100 years ago marked something a certain way doesn't mean that is how the composer marked it. I see variations between old scores all the time." And as I keep saying, this notation is current not just a hundred years ago. I also note that having worked with some dozens of scores from a single composer that have been published by different houses, there is usually consistency in their notational language. It's possible that some of the great conservatories that taught composition to generations of Russian/Soviet composers in particular had performance practices married to particular notations. I've also pulled up French, Italian and Polish works from 1870-2015 that use this.
In reply to I don't doubt that it was… by bobjp
@bobjp: I don't doubt that it was used. But if this is piano, how is it played? Is it used any more?
This type of notation is sometimes used for the piano's sostenuto pedal (middle-pedal / if available). // this is not the same as sustain-pedal.
After playing the chord/arpeggio or a single-note, you press the sostenuto pedal just before you lift your fingers off the keys, and only those notes are sustained as long as your foot is held down. Other notes that you play later will not be affected.
Note: On some old baby-grand pianos, the sostenuto pedal only works in the lower octaves.
In reply to @bobjp: I don't doubt that… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Thank you for actually answering my question about playing the example. As I said earlier, all that is needed is a pedal marking. Obviously this would only apply to a piano with three pedals. Fretted instruments would indeed use the above marking.
I'm not trying to be difficult. I think I would rather see S.P. (Sostenuto Pedal). Is that not the composer's intent? If my piano only has two pedals, I have to fake it as best I can. Is that the composer's intent?
In reply to Thank you for actually… by bobjp
That may be the composer's intention. Or he may not intend anything. Maybe he just notated his musical works in a way he was used to.
I've seen it used only once or twice as a pedal line in printed works: "Sost.____|" or "S. *"
Since this pedal-line isn't used very often in printed works, some composers may have used/preferred a style that is logical and familiar to them (like let-ring).