Anyone doing advanced classical guitar notation in Musescore?

• Nov 5, 2022 - 11:28

Hi,

Started using Musescore 1 week ago.

I'd like to be able to add signs for bar, partial bar, hinge bar, guide finger and other things needed for a detailed classical guitar score.

Used a program called Mosaic years ago where all these signs could be found is a "tool box".

Comments

• Nov 5, 2022 - 23:29

Thanks, didn't find anything useful in the lines pallet but I'll look into it again tomorrow.

A "guide finger" is a technique where a finger stays in contact with a string, without fretting it, while doing a position shift. It's indicated by a small/short line to the right of the finger at the start of the position shift and to the left of the finger at the end of the position shift.
The line is angled up/down to indicate an ascending/descending movement.

(Attached is an example showing how guide fingers/guide lines can be used. Here the line is only written out att the "arriving note")

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• Nov 6, 2022 - 00:34

Text Lines and Custom Lines can be used for barres. You can have hooks at either end of the line and there are several line styles. If you add Roman numeral text then you can model barres as seen in classical notation, e.g. CIV

https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/lines#text-lines

You can set up your preferred style then add it to a pallet for further instances.

All my scores are TAB which renders position shift redundant. You could set up a short diagonal line and save it to a pallet, (see paragraph on Custom Lines), or maybe there is something better in the master pallet.

https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/master-palette

Coincidentally, the section shown in the handbook page above has the Lines group selected and you can see a VII ——— barre line:

Master palette.png

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• Nov 6, 2022 - 06:33

Thanks a lot for your input and time, but those are position indications however.

What I'm looking for are VERTICAL lines (some with hooks at both ends, some with a hook only at the top, some with the hook only at the bottom) that can be scaled in order to indicate the size of the bar.
A bar/barré can cover as little as 2 strings and as much as 6 strings (if playing a 6 string guitar) and everything in between.
A partitial bar can cover some of the middle strings (for example 5:th to 3:rd) by flexing the outer joint of the first finger while leaving the other strings untouched/open.

A hinge bar covers either some top string/strings while leaving the bottom strings open or vice versa (covering some bottom string/strings leaving the top strings open).

All of these techniques are crucial for an advanced/professional classical guitarist, and they all have individual signs.

Attached is an arrangement I did many years ago (at the time I called both the hinge bar and the partitial bar "special bar/spec") showing some of these signs.

The program I used at the time got discontinued, and I just didn't feel like learning Finale which was "top of the line" at the time, but not very intuitive...
I went back to doing my scores/fingering/editing for myself - and my students at the Royal College of Music - by hand.
Last weekend a felt the need for a notation program and typed "free music notation program" in google and here I am :-)

I've since realized that Sibelius has a free version as well, and I'll look into that one as well.

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• Nov 6, 2022 - 14:20

Very helpful once again, much appreciated :-)

I of course realized that there's yet another bar sign that I need: A bar/barré covering two frets where the base of the first finger might be fretting the 2:nd fret - F# on the first string - while the tip of the finger is fretting the 3:rd fret on the 6:th string - G on the sixth string - or vice versa.

The bar sign needed (for the first example) is then an angled line (with hooks if possible) going from the top F# to the bottom G (hope that was possible to understand).

If I can do that I believe that I've got all my needs covered regarding fingerings.

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• Nov 6, 2022 - 15:25
  1. "I need A bar/barré covering two frets where the base of the first finger might be fretting the 2:nd fret - F# on the first string - while the tip of the finger is fretting the 3:rd fret on the 6:th string - G on the sixth string - or vice versa."
    and
  2. "an angled line (with hooks if possible)"

E.g., an angled line with hooks is trivial to obtain (basically a simple/straigth line - palette Lines - edited in Inspector to add hooks), but please attach specific images (images of the 2 use cases, with context - 1/2 measures) to better understand and help

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• Nov 6, 2022 - 17:10

Hi,

Thanks for your time, again :-)

Attached are 3 crappy drawings I just made:

  • A Gmaj7 chord ( G F# B D F# low to high) where an angled bar is needed. The sign used is either a "normal" barré sign, but angled across the chord. Another sign for this is "a broken" line that is straight to start with but that then gets angled to the left or right depending on the notes.

  • B major to F#7/A# (B D# F# to A# E F# low to high) same signs used as described above.

  • The 4 signs: The "normal" barré symbol angled to the left or to the right. The "broken line" symbol that is straight at one end, angled at the other.

Once again sorry for the crappy drawings...

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• Nov 6, 2022 - 18:10

Thanks for all your help!

These signs do exist in published scores, but they're not that common (aren't there some in the "Bach book" by Frank Koonce?).
I use this type of fingering when needed in my own playing.

I've come a long way, with help from people like you, in 1 just week using Musescore and with what I'v learned this far I can produce detailed and great looking scores.

I'm happy :-)

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• Nov 6, 2022 - 18:34

"aren't there some in the "Bach book" by Frank Koonce?)"

No, I don't see that in the Bach book. Frank Koonce describes these editorial notation symbols on page XIX of his book, in particular what he calls a "hinge" barré - see image below.
We're really into niche notations, and everyone can arrange them according to their taste, hence the idea of creating images if necessary.

bach koonce.jpg

"I've come a long way, with help from people like you, in 1 just week using Musescore and with what I'v learned this far I can produce detailed and great looking scores.
I'm happy :-) "

Great. Happy too! And welcome aboard. 😉

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• Nov 6, 2022 - 19:36

That picture confirms Musescore's handbook assertion that barre symbols can be horizontal, (as found in the lines pallet), so I'll keep using them rather than switching to the vertical version. The vertical version does show at a glance which strings are barred but the horizontal version shows better how long the barre is held for.

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• Nov 7, 2022 - 05:44

No, the vertical line (with hooks/brackets) indicate the size of the barré while the roman number indicate in which position the barré should be placed.
In classical guitar playing we have to plan the fingering carefully due to the complexity of the repertoire as well as the musical legato we are striving for. As I've written earlier in this thread there are so many different ways we play the barré.

The exact size of the bar/barré has to taken into consideration not only to what is needed at the spot the need for a barré occurs. but also to what is following later in the same measure or maybe several measures later.
If there for example is a C chord in the third position, with the root C on the 5:th string, we can neither just place the barré over 5 strings, because that is "what is needed at that particular moment", nor play a full barré over 6 strings, "because we might find that more comfortable".
We must look ahead, and if an open 6:th string/low E follows the barré section we can only play a barré over 5 strings. If however a low G (third fret/6:th string) occurs we have to place the barré over 6 strings already at the spot when there seemed to be enough with covering 5 strings as the note C (on the 5:th string) was the lowest one.
All this in order to obtain a musical flow in our performances.
(A very simplified example in order to make it understandable)

In the score the vertical line (with brackets) is then stretched to a size that indicate if the barré only should cover to the note C/5.th string or is stretched further down to indicate that a larger/full barré to the 6:th string is needed.

Another method, together with the vertical line with brackets, used in order to clarify the size of the barré is:
- a barré over 2 strings is written 2/6 (covering 2 out of 6 strings)
- a barré over 3 strings is written 3/6 (covering 3 out of 6 strings)
- a barré over 4 strings is written 4/6 (covering 4 out of 6 strings)
- a barré over 5 strings is written 5/6 (covering 5 out of 6 strings)
- a barré over 6 strings is written 6/6 (covering 6 out of 6 strings)

One also can find the letter C used together with a Roman number followed by didgit, where the C indicates a barré, the Roman number the position, while the didgit indicates how many strings that should be covered.

The barré is in classical guitar playing "a refined art" consisting of many different techniques, so when preparing a publication/an edition we have to be very specific and detailed in our scores.

A good player will of course figure all out by him-/herself according to his/her needs/preferences (fingering is personal), but a good edition/publication should contain enough detailed information so no guesswork is needed.

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• Nov 7, 2022 - 11:25

The Roman numeral can have an Arabic subscript to indicate the number of strings barred, as listed in the image above from cadiz1. There is even a version showing hinged barres but the vertical lines do give better visibility for this.

Thanks for all the detail, it's always good to learn new ways of doing things.

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• Nov 7, 2022 - 13:12

Yes, as you stated above "The Roman numeral can have an Arabic subscript" and this method is used by Frank Koonce in his great "Bach book".

I tried to explain this in my previous post ("One also can find the letter C used together with a Roman number followed by didgit, where the C indicates a barré, the Roman number the position, while the didgit indicates how many strings that should be covered") but as English isn't my mother tongue it didn't come out as elegant as yours.

And yes once again, "it's always good to learn new ways of doing things"

Thanks for your input.

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