Bowing indication and collision
In the attached piece, the second movement of Beethoven’s String Quartet No. 16, I’ve made an arrangement for string orchestra. The music is ok (cross check still needed) but I’ve a few questions:
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Inserting bowing is ok as long as it’s set it at the beginning or at the end of a slur or if the slur is below the notes. In bar / measure 12, however, it’s set in the middle. The slur is in this case more indication the musical intention but where the bowing is not following the slur. Here the up/down indication is set between the note and the slur. This is to my opinion incorrect. Is this a bug?
From “Behind bars” it’s not so clear what is the correct notation but in Section “Bowing marks”, it’s set above the slur which is correct for me. Why does MuseScore set it between the note and the slur?
For information, Lilypond set the bowing indication by default correct, see attached snapshot. -
In bar 12, the inserted downbow for the Viola is superimposed on the dim. For Violin 2. This is incorrect and why?
I thought some collision avoidance is implemented. -
I’m not particularly interested in playback, but in bar 43 and onwards where a set a tenuto for the first violin, it changes to pizzicato, why? Is this a bug?
By the way, I’m only using MS Basic sound
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| BeethovenLv_Quartet_Op135_FuerStreicher_bez.mscz | 221.11 KB |
| Bowing.png | 11.01 KB |
Comments
It looks like you first added pizzicato and then changed the text. Inside, the element is still pizzicato and it affects playback.
![pizz.png]( "pizz.png")
Try removing those "ten." elements and instead adding another text element that does not affect playback, like "Normal".
1.Sorry, can't help with this one
In reply to It looks like you first… by mercuree
Thanks, sort of works with the following comments:
2) Works, but the dim falls than out of line with the hairpin which is not really correct. See for example "Behind bars" Crescendo/diminuendo signs (Hairpins)/HORIZONTAL ALIGNMENT
3) Ok, works as well but to be honest, I'm not aware why there was a hidden pizz, there because I don't think I inserted one.
1) An additional comment. If you try to move the bowing element "upwards", the slur is following, i.e. the bowing instruction is always between the slur and the note. You can avoid this by deselecting "Auto-place". Then you can move it by hand where you want. However, I consider this being a bug because why should the default setting be incorrect and you have to manually manipulate the position to get it correct.
In reply to Thanks, sort of works with… by TomStrand
2) Ok, I agree. I created an issue on github https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/26462
1) I still can't help you with this issue. I don't have my own opinion on how it should work. Maybe other users can help.
Some thoughts:
1. May or may not be a bug. I agree that the bowing looks better above the slur. Were it me, I would just unlock
it and drag it where I want it and move on.
.053 to .048. This is done in Format>Page settings. Then everything lines up. Or put a staff spacer down in
that area. Added from the Layout palette. There is some collision avoidance. But in this case, what was
supposed to happen?
I'm not sure what p cresc.-hairpin-pp means in this case.
There are many things that make sense for a quartet that I'm not sure work for a string orchestra. Sotto voce, and so many hairpins to name a few. Piano mark followed a few measures later by a single note cresc hairpin to another piano mark. Yes, I know what it means, but will an orchestra convey it as well as a quartet? You may say that is the way Beethoven marked it (if he did), but he didn't write this for orchestra. These are two different compositional concepts. I'm not saying you shouldn't do this. I'm just saying that there are a lot of things to consider.
Just my thoughts, of course.
In reply to Some thoughts: 1. May or… by bobjp
For the pice I'm engraving, I use a very old and bad Bärenreiter print annotated by hand by Leonard Bernstein. The Bass part is completely noted by hand and is incomplete. I'm not yet finished and try to find a compromise between the Bärenreiter print and the annotations by Bernstein together with our conductor and the principal violinist.
The YouTube video https://youtu.be/oGsnJn7yI6c?si=LHeS3Q54a785n7FN also provide a good inspiration.
In reply to For the pice I'm engraving,… by TomStrand
Can you turn off Autoplace for those bowing marks and then move them manually? I don’t have MS4 so can’t try it out, but see https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/positioning-elements#autoplace-disa….
Or select the marks from the master palette - they may behave as symbols which you can drag where you want.
In reply to Can you turn off Autoplace… by Brer Fox
In principle, I think although I've not tested everything, you can deselect Autoplace and freely move most things around as you like.
However, before I start this, I want to finish cross reading the music and insert the dynamics where it should be. When this is done, I probably need to go through again and tweak everything that needs tweaking. If I have, for some reason, to reset the score, I understand I will loose all tweaking and that's something I want to avoid.