Dynamics in choral music (again)
Re. the playback of voices at the top range of volumes - Using decent speakers or headphones it is bearable, but forte and fortissimo are very often much, much louder than mf. Is there a way of specifying the volume attributed to a particular dynamic instruction so that one can control ones own levels? Is the scale property on the dynamic supposed to do this?
Comments
I threw this together (so please forgive the bad voice leading) with different dynamics. Note in the mixer I boosted the volume of the voices. So play around with this.
On my system, I don't hear the vast difference in dynamics that you mention. In the past, there where many problems with vocals. I'm not saying all is well.
No the scale only changes the size of the printed symbol. Larger or smaller. They are telling us that some day we may be able to define dynamics.
OK, try this - and I attached someone else's score just to make sure I haven't been dreaming - listen to what happens at bar 24 with the tenors. There are other places in this score, and numerous examples I have in other scores, where the volume is out of control at level forte.
In reply to OK, try this - and I… by Ali Wood
The problem with this score is that the dynamics as written don't work. Everything starts out piano then there is this forte. Sorry but there is a big difference between the two. Yes there are a few cresc before the fortes. They are not defined and either just barely work or don't work at all. You know that a cresc has to have a dynamic at the end to work properly. None of the ones in this score do. Even the ones that do work a little don't do much. I doubt that the volume goes up to mp. I suspect that all the parts are supposed to get louder all the way to the forte. In which case it wouldn't be so jarring.
Also this score seriously needs to be panned. Right now everyone is on top of each other. So some things won't sound right anyway. People always overlook how important pan is.
Nothing wrong with using mf instead of f.
Muse vocals need work, that's for sure. I'm not saying other-wise. But this score needs a little more work.
In reply to The problem with this score… by bobjp
Sorry bobjp...
(This score is not mine, I hasten to add, OK?) and there's all sorts wrong.
But just concentrate on bar 24. Yes, there's no crescendo, and it is silly to actually write this as it has been written, but taken at face value, Musescore should render the sudden f as a sudden f, not a massive change to ff, which it appears to do on my system. The audio seems to lose control.
Accept the point about the panning.
In reply to Sorry bobjp... (This score… by Ali Wood
OK. Test it yourself. Open the score. Get ready to play the T2 part at measure 23. Open the Dynamics palette. Play the T2 part 23 and 24. Stop. Delete the f in measure 24 and replace it with the ff. Play 23 again. On my system, there is a noticeable difference. Another thing to try is to put an mf in measure 23 and leave the f in 24.
What MuseScore should do and what it actually does can be two different things. I write for playback. So I tend to do whatever it takes to get the sound I want. If a part is to loud or soft, I change settings. That's what the mixer and dynamics are for.
In reply to OK. Test it yourself. Open… by bobjp
Yeh, did exactly what you said, (and I try these things all the time anyway, being a fairly obsessive user of playback). What I'm saying is that the vocal sound when f is there is fairly unpleasant. Doubly unpleasant with ff.
The difference is not in dispute.
mf sounds marvellous, in comparison, even beautiful. f and ff sound crude.
So I rarely use dynamic markings above mf. I just can't, during playback assessments - I'm highlighting the deterioration in the quality of the sound above mf. Whether or not a crescendo is placed between the two makes no difference to the sound quality, just gives less of a shock!.
Actually MS throws a wobbly if dynamic markings are illogical (eg an ff followed by a crescendo hairpin followed by an f) - that is entirely the fault of the composer.
In reply to Yeh, did exactly what you… by Ali Wood
Yup. We each have to do what we must.