Preparing piece with correct accidentals
I have a piece for instruments (inc. clarinet and tenor sax) which of course have different key signatures to concert pitch. I have prepared the piece in concert pitch, If I make the accidentals look sensible in concert pitch, that won't guarantee that they are "sensible" when displayed in proper pitch, will it? So am I better off leaving the decision over which accidental to use until I am finalising everything in proper pitch?
Comments
When displaying as concert pitch Musescore should preserve intervals by using the appropriate accidentals if the score has been set up correctly. So, if in concert pitch you enter a diminished 5th, C to Gb, a part for a Bb transposing instrument would also show a diminished 5th, D to Ab, rather than an augmented 4th, D to G#.
Some composers like to fiddle with transposed parts to avoid double flats and sharps by using enharmonic alternatives, but that doesn't show the player the correct intervals and can make scalar or arpeggiated passages difficult to parse at speed.
If you have the score in concert key, then all accidentals are the same as the key signature.
If you then leave the concert key, all keys are automatically corrected, i.e. if you are in C major, for example, then the flute also has C major, the (Eb) alto saxophone has A major, the (Bb) clarinet and the (Bb) trumpet have D major and the F horn has G major.
So when you copy a score, you don't do it in concert key, because it's usually not written in concert key.
If you are composing, is it perhaps better to work in concert key (I can't compose!)?
Thanks for the two replies. Perhaps I need to rephrase the question. I have the score in concert pitch. If the accidentals are correct here, will they be correct (i.e. optimal for the player) when I switch into proper pitch? I know the notes will be correct, but will I have to doctor the accidentals to make sure (as you exemplify) that a diminished fifth still appears as a diminished fifth and not an augmented forth.
In reply to Thanks for the two replies… by Ali Wood
"will they be correct (i.e. optimal for the player) when I switch into proper pitch? "
Yes - if the score has been set up correctly using the correct instruments. Musescore takes care of everything transposition-wise.
In reply to "will they be correct (i.e… by SteveBlower
I'm sorry to be so imprecise in stating my question....
Yes, the score has been set up correctly with the correct instruments, etc. etc.
To be specific: if we are in Bb major, and I have set up a diminished fifth correctly in the concert pitch, from a C# to a G, and the instrument is a Bb clarinet, and then I move to transposed pitch, it seems to appear correctly as a diminished fifth in the transposed version, i.e. D# to A.
But that same transposition might have resulted in Eb to A, which is an augmented fourth. How do I know that it will always get it right? I have a long score, and I don't want to spend ages getting the intervals right in concert pitch, if it is EVEN OCCASIONALLY going to change from a dim 5th to an augmented 4th when I move to transposed pitch.
In reply to I'm sorry to be so imprecise… by Ali Wood
As far as I've ever seen, the transposition from concert pitch to 'transposed' pitch keeps the intervals the same. So a diminished 5th will transpose to another diminished 5th and an augmented 4th will transpose to another augmented 4th. Regardless of whether this is the most efficient way for the transposing instrument to read and play the music. I've never seen it do otherwise. It would be extremely difficult to program it to change those intervals and fairly easy to keep them the same.
In answer to someone's question, I compose in Concert Pitch. I can't read and hear intervals between instruments when they are in transposed pitch. I write in Concert Pitch and switch to 'transposed' pitch once I'm done. I would imagine that composers of the past may have been able to think and write and hear in 'transposed' pitch. Since re-writing the parts was so much work. But I don't know.
In reply to As far as I've ever seen,… by TheHutch
Thanks. Me too, I'm not clever enough to compose in transposed pitch!
I'll let you know if I find any cases where the transposition messes up.
In reply to I'm sorry to be so imprecise… by Ali Wood
"How do I know that it will always get it right?"
Ah! you are interested in the philosophy of the question.
Like many other things in life it is a matter of having faith. How does one "know" that Microsoft Excel will produce a correct result from a spreadsheet formula or Microsoft Word spell checker give the correct spelling? But many people continue to use them without worry. Based on my experience, I find that my faith in Musescore's transposition algorithm is not misplaced. I don't "know" that it will always get it right, but I haven't caught it making a mistake yet.
In reply to "How do I know that it will… by SteveBlower
Sure, but don't get me wrong. It will always get it "right" in terms of the number of semitones between the notes, of course. it's just a case of which accidental combination it chooses uses - C# and G or Db and G. A judgement as to which is correct is not an exact science (as I am constantly reminded by a tutor who helps me!)
In reply to Sure, but don't get me wrong… by Ali Wood
Hmm?? Which is correct is an exact science. An interval of a 5th whether perfect or diminished always includes 5 different note names -e.g. perfect 5th C, D, E, F, G - diminished 5th C, D, E, F, Gb. If the interval only contains 4 different note names it is a 4th of some description -e.g. perfect 4th C. D. E. F - augmented 4th, C, D, E, F#.
Your tutor may be meaning that a diminished 5th and augmented 4th may not always be the same interval in terms of difference in the frequency of the upper and lower notes if a tuning that is not equitempered is being used. In non-equitempered tunings not all semitones are equal. However, that is a different matter to how the interval is "spelled".
In reply to I'm sorry to be so imprecise… by Ali Wood
I don't know if there can ever be a sure thing. As a test, I set up a score in concert Bb for flute, Bb clarinet, alto sax and F horn. I wrote several dim 5th intervals starting with C# on beat one to G on beat two. I even tried to trick it by writing A with a natural sign to Eb. I wrote several dim 5th examples for each instrument. When I hit the concert pitch button, it seems as though MuseScore maintained the dim 5th interval and didn't use an augmented 4th. Good luck.