Trombone in treble clef rather than 8va
I recently wrote a piece where the Trombone part was consistently upper range. To make it "easier" to read I wrote it down an octave and used 8va.
The bone player on the gig said that it was common knowledge that it was better to write in treble as 8va was notoriously harder for bone players.
This surprised me. MANY years ago I played bone, and I have no mem0ory of this.
I do not doubt this fantastic player, but I am curious as to what others think.
Thanks,
Comments
Does he play in orchestras much? That music often uses tenor clef for this same purpose. Using treble is not particularly common in my experience (from looking at scores and reading orchestration textbooks; I don't play trombone). But I suppose most jazz players are accustomed to reading it from people giving them treble clef lead sheets to play from so often. So I could easily believe it might be preferable to seeing 8va. This could be especially true given the very different nature of playing trombone on the staff (which potentially uses all seven positions) versus above (which I understand is mostly done in just the frist few positions). It probably messes with the head to see a note commonly associated with sixth or seventh position that needs to be played in second or third because of an 8va. That's just guessing on my part, though.
Associated Board Grade 8 for trombone requires players to be able to read bass, tenor and treble clefs.
The most common usage, as Marc says is bass and tenor, but there are a few pieces for advanced players which are displayed with treble clef.
Using 8va on bass clef would not be helpful as the player would be automatically trying to play the note an octave lower.
In reply to Associated Board Grade 8 for by ChurchOrganist
In my experience, trombone parts written in treble clef are mainly from the brass band world and are written a tone higher than they sound - i.e. for a written C, the trombonist would play a concert Bb.
In reply to In my experience, trombone by phildriscoll
Brass band world notation for trombone is a different thing -
--> this music sounds a ninth lower as notated in treble clef.
High notes for trombone
Alto and tenor clefs are subject - preferred to classical trombonists.
In jazz or pop music it's a matter of player's habits:
- Some are used to play from bass clef - with lots of ledger lines - maybe the majority I know
- some others read treble clef - concert pitch,
- some like bass clef with 8va for outstanding high sections.
In reply to In my experience, trombone by phildriscoll
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In reply to . by Rudi cj7tb
Thank you all. Very interesting. This is a high level trombonist and educator here in Toronto. I will ask some of the other trombone players what they prefer and then update this thread.
You responses are appreciated.
In reply to Thank you all. Very by xavierjazz
Response 1:
"Most professional dudes are used to reading tons of ledger lines. I'm faster at that then reading treble clef for some reason, in fact for me, tenor is easier than translating to treble for me as I tend to translate treble in to tenor - which is not good.
Some are very comfortable reading treble, but for me, I rarely see or write it. That being said, jazzers and legit performers have different strengths- and apparently I posses none!"
In reply to Response 1: "Most by xavierjazz
Another response:
No problem. I can clear this all up for you very quickly (and feel free to post this in the thread if you'd like).
You're getting some slight discrepancy in answers in terms of what people *like* (explained below), but you'll notice to NO ONE likes to see the bass clef with the 8va. For various reasons, this is really awkward for trombone players. I consider myself a very good sight-reader, but I almost always make at least one mistake when a part is written in 8va, unless I look it over beforehand.
The one thing that everyone can read is bass clef - trombone players are used to and have absolutely no problem reading up to four ledger lines (a high D). That's what you should do - this would be my advice to any arranger. (You shouldn't be writing above that D, anyway.)
Some people, however, have a preference for another notation:
* Classical/orchestral trombonists are good at reading tenor clef, so you can (and should) write higher parts for them in tenor clef.
* Jazz trombonists are good at reading treble clef, so you can write higher parts for them in treble clef.
My personal preference is treble clef 8vb (so a middle 'C' appears in the third space of the staff), and that's how I write parts for myself. I think it's ideal for the entire trombone's range (unless writing for bass trombone).
So:
Use bass clef (with all the ledger lines - trombone players can read them absolutely without any trouble). Only make an exception when you know who's going to be playing the part. If you've got orchestral trombone players on the gig, you can write in tenor clef. If you've got jazz musicians (improvisors, not just guys who sound good in a big band), ask them if they like treble clef (but they'll be able to play it, in any case).
Never write bass clef 8va. Almost everyone plays it wrong for one reason or another.
Hope that helps!
In reply to Thank you all. Very by xavierjazz
I learned to play in a brass band - Bb cornet and Eb sporano cornet and I now play (poorly) a Bb cornet and Bb trumpet. I can play a trombone (but I can't get the full whoopee range out of a bass trombone) and I can play a French horn and even a chair made out of tubes. I can tell you that the trombonists are the most flexible when it comes to reading music with different clefs (with orchestral tuba and euphonium players a close second). I haven't met any of them who like bass clef with 8va - bass clef is for bass notes.