yes, I played a score with multiple instruments, all were loud except for the piano one.
Please look into it and see whether it happens for you as well or not.
I have this problem too. Piano sound is quite, but another instruments have normal volume. And when i increase volume in Display > Synthesizer, piano volume became normal, but another instruments volume become very loud. Please fix this bug
Yet another report without OS and MuseScore version informatiion!!!
Please, please, include this in your issue tracker reports!!!!!!!
Otherwise how are we to know how to proceed!!!!!
It seems to me that this may be a SoundFont issue - have you checked to see if the balance issues are still there in other MIDI players or sequncer apps?
If this is the case, then the issue is nothing to do with MuseScore, but rather the SoundFont author should be approached for a fix.
After some experimentation I have ascertained that the fault lies in the TimGM6Mb SoundFont.
The piano sound is indeed quieter than expected using this default soundfont, however changing to a different SoundFont (I used the RolandGS one) brings the piano soujnd back into balance with the mixer controls set in the default position.
I am therefore marking the issue as fixed subject to other input of course!
ChurchOrganist: the status "fixed" is used when something is changed in the code (and shows up in the nightly builds) to address this issue. In this instance it would mean turning up the default volume for piano (and marking as "fixed"), or choosing not to turn up the default volume for piano (and marking as "won't fix")
Thing is that this is not actually a MuseScore Issue but an issue with the soundfont itself, therefore it doesn't merit a fix in MuseScore.
Obviously turning up the default volume for piano in the instrument file (assuming that is where it is stored) is not going to work because it would screw up the balance when other soundfonts are loaded.
I'm sorry. My operational system is Windows XP SP3. Musescore 1.2 R 5470. Sound Card^ Sound Max integrated Digital HD audio.
Ok. I understand that sound problem is caused soundfont. But I dont know how install soundfont on my soundcard. Can you add item in Musescore options, for example, "Increse piano sample volume" in subparagraph "Solving problems" or the ability to change soundfont with help Musescore?
P.S. I'm sorry for may bad English/
I'm confused. i never noticed this to be a problem in 1.2 - the piano seemed reasonably well balanaced against the other instruments I tended to use it. Are things somehow different in 2.0? Or, if there some particular of instruments the piano seems quieter than, perhaps the rea Issue is that those other instruments are too loud? Or perhaps we're really just talking about subjective impressions of what the balance *should* sound like? i tend to base my expectation on how it would sound unamplified in an actual ensemble.
Marc, if you open the Synthesiser window and compare playback of Piano 1 with other instruments you will see that output level is around -10db while other instruments range from 0db to slightly above, in fact some of them are just into the red at Velocity 80 which is bad news if you want to increase volume.
That is in version 1.2 tested with four notes - F above middle C velocity 80.
In R5662 again the output of Piano 1 is around 10db lower than other sounds, but output is generally a bit lower so you don't get instruments red-lining.
All these tests were done using the default volume settings MuseScore sets on score creation.
Personally I don't find it strange that different sounds have different output levels - the wave form can have a big impact on output level, which, of course is why in a studio environment you have compressors and limiters, to stop instruments overloading the system - saxophones are very bad at that IIRC.
I do find it interesting that no-one has complained that an instrument is too loud :)
It seems that the studio phenomenon known as creeping (volume) slider is apparent even with composers today :)
My own view is that we should just close this - after all everyone should balance their instruments in the mixer window, and the variation in output reflects real life.
We just have to educate them that there are two ways to move the volume control :)
So how do we deal with this long standing issue ? I guess we have all the info needed right?
We found out that it's not a problem in MuseScore synthesizer code in 1.2 or trunk. The problem is in the soundfont. Right ?
So
1/ We consider it's not a problem, since the level can be changed in the mixer dialog. Somehow it's not very user friendly since the default will not work.
2/ We edit the soundfont to make the piano sound at the same default level. We can contact Tim or do it ourself. Any volunteer?
There is quite a wide variation in output between all the instruments in the soundfont. The piano is the quietest at -10db in MuseScore 1.2, but the others range from around -5db to around +2db again in MuseScore 1.2
It is unrealistic for users to expect a perfect mix straight from the defaults set by score creation, and a difference in output of 10db isn't a great deal.
I did examine the piano sounds in Viena yesterday, and, IMO it's not a very good sound - the samples it is based on are of very indifferent quality, and are pitched too high to play the lowest notes of the piano range properly.
In fact the only thing in the soundfont's favour is its size, but having said that, both the RolandGS and YamahaXG soundfonts are both smaller, both of which are freely downloadable from the internet, although I'm not sure of their licencing status.
If we were to edit the soundfont I think rather than boosting the piano level we should bring down the other instrument levels to -10db. This would potentially pre-empt complaints about distortion due to people assigning several loud instruments to a score and not compensating for that in the mixer.
There is a third option which hasn't been mentioned, which is to find another suitable soundfont. I shall personally look into this option.
Then let's close this issue. Open a new one or a forum post to talk about the hunt for a free (beer and speech) and small soundfont. (Roland and Yamaha soundfonts... only the names, I guess they are not free...)
Comments
Have you tried turning up the master volume in Display > Synthesizer?
yes, I played a score with multiple instruments, all were loud except for the piano one.
Please look into it and see whether it happens for you as well or not.
Is it still happening?
He hasn't said whether it's still happening.
I have this problem too. Piano sound is quite, but another instruments have normal volume. And when i increase volume in Display > Synthesizer, piano volume became normal, but another instruments volume become very loud. Please fix this bug
Yet another report without OS and MuseScore version informatiion!!!
Please, please, include this in your issue tracker reports!!!!!!!
Otherwise how are we to know how to proceed!!!!!
It seems to me that this may be a SoundFont issue - have you checked to see if the balance issues are still there in other MIDI players or sequncer apps?
If this is the case, then the issue is nothing to do with MuseScore, but rather the SoundFont author should be approached for a fix.
After some experimentation I have ascertained that the fault lies in the TimGM6Mb SoundFont.
The piano sound is indeed quieter than expected using this default soundfont, however changing to a different SoundFont (I used the RolandGS one) brings the piano soujnd back into balance with the mixer controls set in the default position.
I am therefore marking the issue as fixed subject to other input of course!
MuseScore R5562/Windows XP Pro SP3
ChurchOrganist: the status "fixed" is used when something is changed in the code (and shows up in the nightly builds) to address this issue. In this instance it would mean turning up the default volume for piano (and marking as "fixed"), or choosing not to turn up the default volume for piano (and marking as "won't fix")
Thing is that this is not actually a MuseScore Issue but an issue with the soundfont itself, therefore it doesn't merit a fix in MuseScore.
Obviously turning up the default volume for piano in the instrument file (assuming that is where it is stored) is not going to work because it would screw up the balance when other soundfonts are loaded.
How then do we get this issue closed?
I'm sorry. My operational system is Windows XP SP3. Musescore 1.2 R 5470. Sound Card^ Sound Max integrated Digital HD audio.
Ok. I understand that sound problem is caused soundfont. But I dont know how install soundfont on my soundcard. Can you add item in Musescore options, for example, "Increse piano sample volume" in subparagraph "Solving problems" or the ability to change soundfont with help Musescore?
P.S. I'm sorry for may bad English/
Check http://musescore.org/en/handbook/soundfont and maybe its Russian counterpart (this translation is marked 'outdated')
Thank you very much. The problem is solved.
So - can we close this now?
ChurchOrganist: If the default SoundFont needs adjusting then we close it after it is adjusted.
But surely that is down to Tim Brechbill who provides the SoundFont?
Does he know there is a problem??
I could do it in Viena if you like but don't want to infringe his author rights.
I would contact the author - I did that when there was a problem with another soundfont.
I'm confused. i never noticed this to be a problem in 1.2 - the piano seemed reasonably well balanaced against the other instruments I tended to use it. Are things somehow different in 2.0? Or, if there some particular of instruments the piano seems quieter than, perhaps the rea Issue is that those other instruments are too loud? Or perhaps we're really just talking about subjective impressions of what the balance *should* sound like? i tend to base my expectation on how it would sound unamplified in an actual ensemble.
Marc, if you open the Synthesiser window and compare playback of Piano 1 with other instruments you will see that output level is around -10db while other instruments range from 0db to slightly above, in fact some of them are just into the red at Velocity 80 which is bad news if you want to increase volume.
That is in version 1.2 tested with four notes - F above middle C velocity 80.
In R5662 again the output of Piano 1 is around 10db lower than other sounds, but output is generally a bit lower so you don't get instruments red-lining.
All these tests were done using the default volume settings MuseScore sets on score creation.
Personally I don't find it strange that different sounds have different output levels - the wave form can have a big impact on output level, which, of course is why in a studio environment you have compressors and limiters, to stop instruments overloading the system - saxophones are very bad at that IIRC.
I do find it interesting that no-one has complained that an instrument is too loud :)
It seems that the studio phenomenon known as creeping (volume) slider is apparent even with composers today :)
My own view is that we should just close this - after all everyone should balance their instruments in the mixer window, and the variation in output reflects real life.
We just have to educate them that there are two ways to move the volume control :)
So how do we deal with this long standing issue ? I guess we have all the info needed right?
We found out that it's not a problem in MuseScore synthesizer code in 1.2 or trunk. The problem is in the soundfont. Right ?
So
1/ We consider it's not a problem, since the level can be changed in the mixer dialog. Somehow it's not very user friendly since the default will not work.
2/ We edit the soundfont to make the piano sound at the same default level. We can contact Tim or do it ourself. Any volunteer?
I say 1.
There is quite a wide variation in output between all the instruments in the soundfont. The piano is the quietest at -10db in MuseScore 1.2, but the others range from around -5db to around +2db again in MuseScore 1.2
It is unrealistic for users to expect a perfect mix straight from the defaults set by score creation, and a difference in output of 10db isn't a great deal.
I did examine the piano sounds in Viena yesterday, and, IMO it's not a very good sound - the samples it is based on are of very indifferent quality, and are pitched too high to play the lowest notes of the piano range properly.
In fact the only thing in the soundfont's favour is its size, but having said that, both the RolandGS and YamahaXG soundfonts are both smaller, both of which are freely downloadable from the internet, although I'm not sure of their licencing status.
If we were to edit the soundfont I think rather than boosting the piano level we should bring down the other instrument levels to -10db. This would potentially pre-empt complaints about distortion due to people assigning several loud instruments to a score and not compensating for that in the mixer.
There is a third option which hasn't been mentioned, which is to find another suitable soundfont. I shall personally look into this option.
Then let's close this issue. Open a new one or a forum post to talk about the hunt for a free (beer and speech) and small soundfont. (Roland and Yamaha soundfonts... only the names, I guess they are not free...)