Voice ranges
Hello
I'm sorry if this has been brought up before, but I find the range limit colouring to be a bit misleading in male voices.
I only use MS for male choir music, so I don't know whether this problem extends to the other voices.
The main problem is that the ranges are too narrow, both upwards and downwards, both for tenor and bass. It's not much - perhaps only a note or three, but it is a bit confusing when I see a note I (a bass) can sing comfortably, which MS tells me is uncomfortable or impossible for a professional (the C in the attached file).
The other problem is that there is only one instance where there is an "amateur" range limit, i. e. the high tenor limit. All other limits go directly to "professional".
Will this issue be addressed, or, preferrably, will we be able to determine custom ranges for voices in future releases?
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Male_voice_range.mscz | 1.24 KB |
Comments
The ranges are stored in the instruments.xml file. You can find it in your MuseScore directory and edit it with a normal text editor.
You could make suggestions for better values.
In reply to The ranges are stored in the by [DELETED] 5
Thanks for the tip, I might try fiddling about with the code to make it fit my needs :)
As for ranges, Wikipedia suggests (Hz given from a tempered piano keyboard)
Soprano: C4 - C6 (261.626 - 1046.5Hz)
Mezzo-Soprano: A3 - A5 (220 - 880Hz)
Alto (Contralto): F3 - F5 (174.6 - 698.456Hz)
Tenor: C3 - C5 (130.813 - 523.251Hz)
Baritone: G2 - G4 (97.998 - 391.995Hz)
Basso: E2 - E4 (82.4 - 329.628Hz)
These could be considered the "amateur" ranges, I suppose.
The "professional" ranges seems to be
Soprano: B3(A3) - D6 (246.942 - 1174.66Hz). Some coloratua soprano roles go up to A6 (1760Hz)
Mezzo-soprano: G3 - C6 (195.998 - 1046.5Hz)
Alto (Contralto): E3 - Bb5 (164.814 - 932.328Hz)
Treble (Boy soprano): A3 - A5 (220 - 880Hz)
Countertenor: G3 - F5 (195.998 - 698.456Hz)
Tenor: Bb2 - G5 (116.541 - 783.991Hz)
Baritone: G2 - A4 (97.998 - 440Hz)
Basso: C2 - G4 (65.4064 - 391.995Hz)
Whistle voice (flageolet): D7 (2349.3Hz)
For males, the record is by Adam Lopez at Db8 (4434.9Hz (yes, above the piano keyboard))
For females, the record is by Georgia Brown at G10 (25088Hz (yes, that is basically ultrasound))
"Strohbass" (Vocal fry): F1 (43.6535Hz)
J.D. Sumner has the record at C1 (32.7032Hz)
That ought to cover it...
In reply to Thanks for the tip, I might by Stubb
The Professional tenor doesn't look right to me. ??
Regards.
In reply to The Professional by xavierjazz
Could you explain what you mean?
In reply to Could you explain what you by Stubb
Do we not start numbering from A, not C?
Also, please see this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessitura
Regards
In reply to I understand Bb 2 to be lower than C2 by xavierjazz
Don't ask me why, but octaves are counted from C to C.
As for tessitura, I'm not sure it should be implemented as a feature in musescore, mainly because most people won't use MS to create 3 hour long operas with very demanding tessituri, and besides, if you intend to write a part with a certain tessitura, you will probably have a plan for how to keep within that tessitura.
In reply to The alphabet starts with C, you know... by Stubb
how is the bottom A on a piano named?
:-)
In reply to So, by xavierjazz
Depends on which system you're using to designate Middle C. The Note Name plugin in MuseScore calls Middle C C3. That would make the bottom note on a piano A-1. MIDI protocol labels Middle C as C4. Bottom A on piano would then be A0.
These octave numbers may be confusing, but it's better than the old system of calling the Middle C octave One-Line, next octave up Two-Line, and so on (which at least makes some sense), but going down: the octave below middle C is the Small Octave, next octave down Great Octave, followed then by the Contra and Sub-Contra Octaves respectively.
As long as you which numbering system is being used, Middle C = C3 or C4, you can figure out the other octave designations.
Fun with numbers!
In reply to Thanks for the tip, I might by Stubb
I think the Wikipedia ranges are already a bit _too_ optimistic… maybe except the basses, all our voices (with some exceptions, although I'm probably closer to counter-tenor so I don't count for tenor) would complain about the amateur range, and despite being an amateur choir we're told (by soloists and instrumentalists we occasionally hire for concerts) that we're not half bad.
So I’d rather stay on the safe side and shrink the suggested ranges a bit.
As for the tessitura… that's probably an interpretation question. I'd personally have the notes I can't sing well or for long denoted outside of my range. As long as everyone agrees on that (handbook!) and playback doesn't entirely skip these notes (it does, for low flute notes), this would work: componists know that they _can_ use ochre and red notes, but that they should keep it down; vocalists can prepare for that.
So, how about this, as a “middle” way, for the classical separation (most choir Sopranos and Altos are probably Mezzo anyway; I looked at some literature we did and considered how well that went):
And even these may be stretching it for real amateurs…
In reply to I think the Wikipedia ranges by mirabilos
… on second thought, there is this: http://music.stackexchange.com/a/5979/27450
This suggests C4-G5, G3-D5, C3-G4, E2-C4 “for vocal ensembles”, and is apparently “from a well-regarded college textbook on music theory”.
Maybe the amateur/professional range is more a safe/recommended vs. still doable with a bit of training thing for vocals, anyway?
This document http://www.fransabsil.nl/archpdf/vocrange.pdf shows that even those estimates above vary somewhat and are rather optimistic, e.g. tenor lower ranges from C to F (and indeed, in most pieces we don't go lower than that).
In reply to … on second thought, there is by mirabilos
The MS ranges are based on my working experience as a choir director, being a much more conservative version of the ranges I was taught as a student many years ago.
With amateur choirs, though you also have the problem of people singing in sections for which, actually, their voices are not intended.
The biggest problem here is "sopranos" most of whom are actually mezzosopranos, but are in many cases really contraltos who don't want to sing inside parts.
Alto sections often exhibit females who should actually be singing tenor, but think tenors are always men.
Tenors are very like rocking horse droppings - difficult to find :)
Basses often feature many baritones who could actually sing in the tenor section but psychologically think it is too high for them, and consequently have difficulty getting down even to G2.
So, like many things in music-making, particularly the amateur vocal ranges given are a bit of a compromise between theoretical exactness, and actual reality.
In reply to The MS ranges are based on my by ChurchOrganist
I think I have to admit to be one of these basses ;-)
In reply to The MS ranges are based on my by ChurchOrganist
This is a real lesson from the experiential.
I have experienced similar things before in school and amateur choir.
I could not express it like that.
Thank you.
In reply to This is a real lesson from by Ziya Mete Demircan
Experience is what you get shortly after having had a need for it ;-)
In reply to Experience is what you get by Jojo-Schmitz
I don't know if it is useful to put too much effort into this. As stubb hinted at in 2010, MS can only set values for recommended ranges and knows nothing of tessitura. (The same could be said of brass instruments as well.) Dynamics are also a concern; I have seen my share of badly written choral music with (for example) basses at pianissimo on c-sharp 4 or d 4 for several consecutive measures. And most amateur sopranos can belt out an f5 or even g5, but to float that same note out at pp is a rare talent. It takes more than just reading a music book to acquire the knowledge to write good music when at the limits of the instrument.
In reply to The MS ranges are based on my by ChurchOrganist
"Tenors are very like rocking horse droppings - difficult to find :)" indeed.
:)
In reply to The MS ranges are based on my by ChurchOrganist
Interesting insight, thank you!
Could you give suggestions for better ranges?
In reply to Could you give suggestions by David Bolton
See reply above
In reply to See reply above by Stubb
Hey! I'm a baritone that can hit G#5 easily.
I want to ask you if this is a normal thing for baritone voice.
Why you lock baritone voice into A2-F4 vocal range?
This range can be more larger.
In reply to Hey! I'm a baritone that can… by ionuteduardm
We don't, Bariton is set to G2-E4 for amateur, F2-F4 for professional. And that's not locking anything, but coloring notes outside that range as a warning. Those colors won't print though.
You can either disable that color warning in preferences or extend the range via staff properties
You replied to a 10 years old post BTW...
In reply to We don't, Bariton is set to… by Jojo-Schmitz
If you can hit a high G# “easily” then you are either incredibly gifted, have considerable high quality training, or are not a baritone. (No disparagement is intended, these are all very real possibilities.) Is your G# only possible at forte or louder, or can you produce it at mezzo-forte or piano, and where does your passagio lie?
F4 is a bit low for professional; thats more of a bass or bass-baritone top for a pro. A pros’ top should be marked as an A in MS.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, tessitura is a more important concern for a vocalist than absolute range, but the ability to judge this is not in the scope of a score writing program.
In reply to If you can hit a high G# … by marty strasinger
I'm not sure why it makes any difference what MuseScore uses for range limits. If you know a voice or instrument can produce a certain note, than go for it. The stored copy of the score and parts will show a red note, but the printed music will be all black notes. This probably won't change until more people are reading music digitally.
Thanks for asking this, I have come up against a similar issue for a women's barbershop choir. Our Tenor, Baritone and Bass are completely different ranges to what Musescore thinks. Going to check out the XML, I hate seeing those red notes.
In reply to Thanks for asking this, I… by ashepkirk
I had thought there was a way to turn that off, but I can't find it. (If someone else knows it, please identify where it is in the Handbook!!!)
However, if you dislike having the green/brown and red notes appear, simply set the ranges to be ridiculously large. Right-click on a staff. From the context menu, click Staff/Part Properties. Then under Usable pitch range, set both amateur and professional ranges to extend from C0 to C8. That will eliminate the red notes for anything in (most of?) the range of a piano.