Create score without using time signature
Hi,
While surfing the internet looking for an "easy method" to create scores, I just "discovered" this software. Since then I have been playing around a bit. MuseScore looks very promising and I was wondering, can it be used for very simple creation of scores, without having too much knowledge of music notation rules?
Let me explain:
I need to be able to display hymns on a beamer, so I am trying to create these by using MuseScore. The hymns show no time signature, hardly any measures, but just the staff with all the notes placed on them to support the lyrics.
When I am trying to create this in MuseScore I am faced with my lack of knowledge on proper ways of creating scores. Therefore I struggle to get MuseScore to display the notes the way the hymn book does. I assume the time signature has an effect, but what exactly I am not sure. But notes change duration all the time when adding new notes. When I am trying to use the extra measures (that are created automatically), I still can not get it to look like it is in the hymn book, the spaces between the notes "take on a life of their own".
I attached something that I created that more or less looks like it should be. It took me a lot of time, while all I am after is to drop & drag any type of note anywhere on the staff I want. For longer hymns I do not think I can get away with what I did.
After my struggle to get the correct notes in place, I tried working with the 'Object Inspector' to move some of the elements around. Although the many settings shown in the Object Inspector are not very clear to me on what they mean, I did manage to re-position notes and lyrics. But all of this is just tweaking, and I wondered, is possible as a standard option to drag notes wherever you want them, without having to worry about time signatures or anything? If not, is there a workaround?
I realise that my question might sound as 'blasphemy' to you experts in music notation, but I want to ask it anyway...
Welcome your comments!
Regards,
Ben
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Hymn.mscz | 2.39 KB |
Comments
For lyrics click on a note and go to Create → Text → Lyrics. That way the lyrics will line up automatically. See lyrics for more information.
In reply to For lyrics click on a note by David Bolton
Hi developers/other interested people,
It would actually be handy to do the above - it would be particularly useful for people interested in really early music such as plain song and organums etc as a lot of this stuff was written without time signatures and with notes seemingly not following modern scoring methodology.
I've done a couple of organums using MuseScore and other programs - it's OK but not really true to the original way it was done.
I understand that MuseScore works by replacing rests with notes so without a time signature for the program to work with I am not sure if you would actually be able to do this.
Dave
Ben,
MuseScore is not well suited for music without a time signature, but it is possible. It requires the ability to count the number of beats per measure (ask a musical friend or your church music director for an explanation if you don't know how to do this).
Right click on an empty part of a measure and select "Measure Properties..." and look at the two numbers labeled "actual" measure duration. Change the first number to reflect the number of beats in that measure. Change the second number to 4. You will need to do this for every measure that doesn't contain four beats.
It might sound a little complicated but if you understand time signatures it will make more sense.
David
In reply to Ben, MuseScore is not well by David Bolton
Hi David,
Many thanks for your feedback!
I already worked out the way of how to add lyrics and that this does help in positioning the notes. Changing the measure properties however, is more or less the workaround I was looking for. It can still be a bit ackward 'manipulating' some notes, but it is workable. So many thanks for your suggestions.
Regards,
Ben
In reply to Ben, MuseScore is not well by David Bolton
I 'inherited' some plain-chant sheet music that's in horrendous condition (the dust is making me choke), and some of it is fragile and falling apart.
This might sound a bit cheesy, but I'm going to try making the time signature 12/4 or 16/4 and putting in individual quarter notes/half notes for word/syllables as necessary and then try to remove the stems later on. I'll leave it to the musical director to actually make 'music' out of it, because the midi generated is accurate, but ugly. I've attached a sample.
It would be really nice to have a feature where you could have multiple words per 'double whole note' or 'longa'.
Thanks for a great free product.
Walter
In reply to Scores without time signatures ... by walterp98
It's already possible. Press "Ctrl + Space" to add a word in a piece of lyrics.
See Lyrics - Special Characters
In reply to Several words on one note by [DELETED] 5
I wanted to add my voice to have the ability to create scores without a time signature and just insert barlines as needed. Much chant has no 'core' time signature and often has to be input with a new time signature for each bar. As such, it takes far longer than necessary to create such scores.
In reply to Time Signature by GACB
I too would like to see freeform scoring that can be done with or without bar lines and also want manual barline creation options.
So I was right, there are many styles of music or writing that notational software simply does not cater for . Question is .....why ?
In reply to I too would like to see by steve2010
steve2010, there are many scorewriters that allow scoring without bar lines (Noteworthy Composer is one of them). Currently it is difficult in MuseScore.
In reply to steve2010, there are many by David Bolton
Hi David, I am grateful for any advice, and will check that one out. This sis a great place and am sure the authors of Museworks will take much of the input for future possibilities. Granted Notation software is more complex than my original understanding and naievety, but these things can all be implemented and made into productive tools and features covering musicians and composers alike.
Steve
I don't know if this is what you mean or not - used to be hundeds of years ago that early notation systems didn't use bar lines. One neat thing about MuseScore is that you can in fact do a lot of different things with the metric structure, including what can appear to be extended musical phrases without bar lines. To do this, just count up the number of quarter notes in the phrase (this is the most common - though you could in fact use any other value). Drop down the Create menu and select Time (or just hit "T"). Change the upper number 4 to that number of quarter notes in the field on the right where you can enter numbers. Your example has 10 quarter notes. Add that to the time signatures and drag it down to the beginning of your first measure. Then when you enter the notes they'll just comprise that one measure without any bar lines. You can then just delete the time signature or set it to invisible. If you use the lyric text entry mode you can write in a syllable per note or if, as in the case of your first syllable you have a mellisma (more than one note per syllable, if you use underscore as next keystroke, it'll take you to the next syllable. I've attached my rendition of your phrase- done very quickly.
I made use of this method to redo a student's little assignment without bar lines (32 quarter notes all together) to demonstrate how to figure out how many beats per measure were actually sounding. The student had measure lines displaced by one beat.
In reply to working without bar lines by Norman Lowrey
I'm editing a score where the time signature changes with almost every bar. One might be 4/2, the next 19/2 and the next 9/2 etc. for upwards of 80 bars. The score has no time signatures, so I have to count each half note in each bar and make a pencil notation. It's laborious work and yes, there are lyrics as it's a Mass setting.
In reply to Working without time signatures by GACB
Is it possible to find a common denominator and reduce the variants to a simpler meter?
Regards.
In reply to Is it by xavierjazz
No, the music follows the lyrics. It's not so bad with the Kyrie, Sanctus and Benedictus, but the Credo, Gloria and Pater Noster (Lord's Prayer) are lengthy and uneven in the extreme. I can upload a sample to my website and link it if you like.
In reply to working without bar lines by Norman Lowrey
It is not hard to figure out how to make the time signature invisible (select, right click, and set to invisible). But how to you 'delete' it?
By the way, doing early music is important. I have a feeling, though, that (without *major* work) there will need to be measures and that these measures will need to have a time signature, at least internally.
But, that said, it would be nice to (a) make the time signatures invisible (including very very thin) and (b) make the barlines invisible (which you can do just as you can make the time signature invisible).
This is a very interesting thread.
In reply to re: Working without bar lines by galms
I agree that early music is important, but the piece I'm working on is early 20th century. The style of the music is what makes the meter uneven. Much, if not most 16th century music is metered, or is written in such a way that meter is easy to enter.
In reply to working without bar lines by Norman Lowrey
Hi, I'm very new to MuseScore, so apologies if this is covered elsewhere: I'm trying to notate a chant in a similar way to Norman's barless hymn. Having put in a bar of 44 quarter notes, I find that the lyrics don't fit the page, i.e. the bar tries to continue on the next page, instead of the system down on the same page? Is there any way of getting round this?
To tyypeset chord progressions for music theory it is useful to enter chords without a time signature. Perhaps one work around is to have one whole note per measure and then have a way to hide the time signature and barlines in the display. Another alternative is a special tempate just for entering chord progressions without a time signature and without noteheads, with the capability of having chord symbols like I 6/4 V I or V7/5 with the right superscript properties.
Schenker notation is another use of notes without a time signature.
For avant garde composition it is useful to set up a score with no fixed time values at all.
In reply to Chord progression examples in music theory by peacenow
You can hide both of those elements by right-clicking on them and choosing "Set Invisible." They may still appear on the screen grayed out, but they will not print. If you don't want to see them on the screen either, take the check mark off the "Show Invisible" option in the Display menu, and they will disappear completely. Unfortunately, you will have to do this for every single bar line, but you will achieve the desired effect.
In reply to Hiding Time Signature & Bar Lines by newsome
You can right click on a barline -> Select -> Similar elements. Right click again and set Invisible. All barlines are now invisible.
In reply to You can right click on a by [DELETED] 5
I had forgotten about the option to select similar elements. Good catch lasconic.
In reply to Hiding Time Signature & Bar Lines by newsome
Thank you. I had found that.
Another thing that can be hidden is the clef on a transposing instrument if one needs to enter the accidentals rather than use the key signature.
As a teacher, it would be so helpful for me to be able to create incorrect and/or incomplete measures intentionally. Is there a way to do this yet?
Also, to be able to make other easily created worksheets for note identification, or scale building say, I would like to be able to notate just a few measures at a time with out a time signature. Any help for this?
In reply to manipulating time signature by mezzome
Absolutely. For measures with the "wrong" number of beats, just right click the measure, select properties, and enter the "actual" duration you want the measure to have in the appropriate box. For music with no time signature, just hide the initial time signature, and use the aforementioned trick to put the number of beats you actually want in each measure.
In reply to manipulating time signature by mezzome
You might like this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DldO7QQO_Do