Ties / dotted notes

• Dec 22, 2010 - 18:21

I've posted about this on the Requests page, but I'm not sure that's very widely read, so I'm asking here.

Has anyone discovered a workaround for the way MuseScore presents dotted notes as two tied notes when importing Midi files.

I can only import Midi - nothing else. I'm only using MuseScore to add lyrics because ProTools can't do lyrics, but I can't add lyrics to tied notes because it makes no sense.

Many thanks

Tom


Comments

In reply to by TomBliss

Ok - I'm in trouble here, I've kinda committed myself to the Protools > MusceScore method, and having looked at the alternatives none of them appeal (or are out of my price range.

I think I can get what I want with tuplets, but reading the manual it seems I can only make tuplets when entering new notes into a measure, yes?

Can I change these midi-imported dotted notes, which show up as ties (and among which I quickly loose my place, being a composer but not really a music reader (blame dyslexia if you want) - into tuplets?

I tried selecting the first note and pressing control 3, but nothing happened.

I tried deleting the second tied note, then selecting the first note and pressing control 3, but nothing happened.

I tried deleting the first note, putting in a new one and then pressing control 3. Something happened but it wasn't a tuplet and all the notes now seem to be in the wrong places.

Any advice anyone?

Cheers

Tom

I'm confused over what happens when I delete the

In reply to by TomBliss

I don't think, using tuplets will help you here. The rhythm wouldn't be the same. (Maybe ok in swing rhythms).
A fast way to change it, would be:
- select first note to change by clicking on it with the mouse
- hit the dot key to change into dotted note: .
- hit the cursor right key until the next note you want to change is selected: -> ->

this works pretty well, you just need two keys and can go through a piece quickly

In reply to by fnbecker

I tried that, but surely I need to delete the second note - the one that was tied to the first - as well?

I managed to get Finale to work, briefly, and it imported the same midi file as tuplets, and it looked just fine, so maybe I played tuplets in the first place.

I always did get confused about this!

In reply to by TomBliss

This would be a little easier if we had an example to look at...

But generally, let's say something shows up as a quarter tied to an eighth. Go to the quarter, click '.', the quarter becomes a dotted-quarter, and the eighth automatically disappears.

In reply to by ceegers

Ok

I have recorded an old sea shanty and quantised it to 8th note tuplets. It plays in the correct rhythm in ProTools and Quicktime.

Here is a file of MuseScore [Valpariso(wrong tuplets)] which is how the midi file imported. It also plays correctly in Musescore.

You'll see that I have changed the first few notes to tuplets using Apple 3 (I think PC people call it 'Command 3').

It still plays correctly, but neither the tuplets nor the tied notes bear any resemblance to normal notation.

The other file is a jpeg of the same midi file as imported into the dreadful FInale. It has made a right mess of bar 15 (and nothing seems to fix that), but the tuplets (which it created without prompting or changes) are as I'd expect to see them in Musescore.

Can you help at all?

I have a two hour show to notate, and still prefer MuseScore to all other options, apart from this tied / dotted / triplet problem.

Thanks

Tom

Attachment Size
Valpario(wrong tuplets).mscz 2.7 KB
Valpariso(Finale).jpg 243.55 KB

In reply to by TomBliss

The midi play, which reflects the way you played, is sensible.

To get a score you have to play solfeggio way ...

You'd better to write the score from scratch.

But caution a score which plays exactly what you want to hear will never be a nice score, or you should adjust each note one by one through tiny properties.....

In this case I would write the whole thing in eighth note, and add "croches inégales" (for baroque music) or "ternary" (for jazz and similar music)

In reply to by TomBliss

so use a metronom, at low speed, to proceed to the recording, in order to get it the cleanest possible....and then correct the score.

When on ave a repeated rhythm such as this qurarter + half in triplet, it's often easier to copy paste triplets with other notes, and then to move the notes.....

In reply to by robert leleu

"so use a metronome, at low speed, to proceed to the recording, in order to get it the cleanest possible....and then correct the score."

I did exactly that - I always do.

The midi file from ProTools is perfect: It's recorded accurately and snapped to the grid both by quantize (including Real Time quantize) and then checked manually.

This is why it opens correctly in other programs such as Finale.

It is only MuseScore which can't handle the file.

I did as robert leleu suggested and recorded the piece with straight eighth notes.

It opened correctly.

But then I tried to change these to triplets using Command 3.

This is the result. It's completely wrong.

Attachment Size
Valpariso:Straight:Edited.mscz 2.41 KB

In reply to by TomBliss

Oh - and while I'm on,

The manual says that making dotted notes and tuplets uses the Ctrl key.

http://musescore.org/en/handbook/tuplet

Eventually I found out that this is wrong.

It is - on a Mac, anyway - the Command key - the one with the square-with-looped-corners on. This is the PC version of Apple's best invention - the Apple Key.

That's why Control 3 was having no effect.

Who should I contact about correcting the manual?

In reply to by TomBliss

The manual was kinda made originally from a Windows perspective. Ctrl is correct on windows... but in general, for pretty much anything, anytime something says ctrl for a program that runs on windows, you can assume on a mac it's command. Just like copy/paste is ctrl-c&v on a windows, but command-c&v on a mac.

Actually, here's a relevant thread that I just saw the other day because a spammer bumped it up oddly enough:
http://musescore.org/en/node/2001

Basically, it's known that the manual needs improving... it's just somebody needs to take some time and do it.

In reply to by ceegers

Ok - thanks.

Going back to the tuplet problem, light is starting to dawn.

When you guys talk about inputting a note that "specifies the full duration of the triplet" you are actually referring to what I would have called (in my ignorance) the "combined duration of all three triplets" yes?

Is that the problem? You see I would call the individual note a triplet, and the group of three a 'group of three' or something similar. Maybe the manual should have a little note to make this crystal clear to those of us who normally avoid written music. It would certainly have saved me a few days of confusion and hair-tearing.

So..

When MuseScore imports a midi triplet, and I try to change it into a MuseScore triplet by pressing Command 3, it is actually changing a note that is ALREADY (almost) a triplet into 3 triplets, which is why they become too short and have two rests after them.

Is that correct?

If this is the case, then obviously there is no point in trying to convert a midi-imported file containing triples and dotted notes to show those triplets or dotted notes in MuseScore - because effectively you have to manually re-write most of the score.

If this is the case, how come Finale presents these correctly?

When you quantize in Protools or Cubase, you can set the grid to be dotted notes or triplets.

But when you import into MuseScore you only get 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 etc.

Surely the simple solution is to change that import dialogue to include dots and triplet options.

Or is that beyond the capabilities of the MuseScore mother code?

Tom

In reply to by TomBliss

I added the equivalent shortcuts for Mac OS on the tuplet page. Feel free to help out with other pages.

Creating notation from a basic MIDI file is very difficult since it requires a lot of interpretation (by a computer). As you have pointed out, current versions of MuseScore do not correctly interpret tuplets from MIDI file.

In reply to by David Bolton

Is it too much to have a sentence added which allows for the other (possibly technically incorrect but commonplace) use of the word triplet/tuplet to describe a note rather than a group?

I've now read a lot of the comments in the forum, and this misunderstanding seems to lie at the root of a lot of people's problems.

In reply to by TomBliss

Somebody could certainly do that (even you).
However, the page does show with pictures a quarter note becoming 3 triplet eighth notes. If somebody looks at the step-by-step instructions/pictures, that should be enough to understand how it works.

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