Thoughts on moving on from Sibelius 6

• Jun 1, 2022 - 22:49

I thought I would post a few thoughts about my current search for a replacement for my copy of Sibelius 6, and invite comment and advice.

I should make clear that I am autistic and I often don't communicate well. I will try and be both brief and as clear as possible. I will fail.

So.

I would like to replace Sib 6, which is getting both buggy and is unsupported. I am going concentrate on only two possible replacements, and post this post in the forums for both pieces of software, to get as balanced a view as possible.

For reference, I am an amateur musician who mostly does relatively small pieces of arranging, for example pop songs for the local am dram panto, with occasional much larger works, such as now, when I am writing a children's folk opera with my sister based on "The Wild Washerwomen" by John Yeomans and Quentin Blake.

I have considered, and then rejected, a few pieces of software as follows:

Sibelius Ultimate: It's like Sibelius 6 but much, much worse. Ugh. Plus I don't want to have to rely on Avid for support given past events.
Finale: Big, complicated, doesn't do anything by itself. I'm a composer/arranger, not a typesetter.
Forte / Crescendo / loads of other $100 small software: Nope; I'm not an 11 year old doing Grade 2 Bassoon, and I can already hand write music reasonably well so I don't see the point in putting in loads of effort to make it look like its 1997.

So, it comes down to Dorico 4 or MuseScore (currently 3, presumably 4 reasonably soon).

Considering Dorico:

I love:

The backstory, and the concomitant likelihood that the programmers are in it for the long haul.

Popovers - genius. A brilliant way of entering data, fast. Redemption which makes up for the fact that this is the same group of programmers who perpetrated the blasted ribbon on Sibelius.

The players / instruments / flow (basically, the Setup screen). Yes, Tantacrul is right that on first glance it seems complicated, but it is powerful, it's easy to learn and it makes anything with movements or separate songs SOOO much easier.

The way in which Dorico treats barlines, tied notes, time signatures etc. as secondary to the timing and length of the notes, such that when you change time signature it doesn't scream and fall over. Although please note, I think this is heavily linked with the major thing I don't love about Dorico.

The quality of the engraving, and the very lovely musical font.

I don't love:

Basically two things. Firstly, the slight air of "Dorico knows best" about the software - two quick examples: the way in which Dorico makes all of the decisions about beaming and groupings for you, and then tries its very best to make it impossible for you to undo it. And yes, I know there are a million global settings to adjust this, and yes I know that I could lock the note in place with a little clamp symbol like you are having torture Dorico into doing what you want, but what is missing is a little button marked "unbeam", which does. Also, the way in which it rigidly adheres to "Engraving happens here, and Writing happens here" mode. It's as if it has decided that you should only be allowed to do one or the other, and that trying to quickly tidy something up whilst also inputting a note is somehow shameful, like being caught masturbating in church. Again, the fix would be simple. A button which you hold down in write mode which makes the stuff you are moving move as if in engraving mode. Done.

Secondly, the rare but present occasions of stuff missing which should have been sorted WAAAAAY back in Beta testing. As a quick rule, if a feature is present in Noteworthy Composer, Dorico should have it. Things like not being able to set notes to only play the first time in a repeat, or publishing an entire £500 piece of software without having yet written the manual (or at least, the "Play" section).

Conclusions from Dorico: It is superb at oh so many things; note input is a joy, the engraving is superb and the end results are generally fabulous. Its annoyances come from there being a slight air of being a constant beta release. A new favourite pastime has become, whenever it becomes obvious that really basic stuff is missing (auto hyphenating lyrics, say), going on to the forum and searching for the slightly aggressive post where the lack of said feature is defended to the hilt, rather than acknowledged and fixed. That said, I think is it probably the best software out there - or will be pretty soon.

Considering MuseScore:

I love:

The backstory. It's coded by people who are doing it for the love of it, not (well, not entirely) for commercial gain.

The open source nature, ditto, and as a side note, the willingness to concede that features which don't exist, should, and will be added at some point.

The control over the notation. You want to unbeam something? Press a button. You want to drag a forte 3 pixels to the left and then go straight back to adding an additional note into that chord? Do it.

The documentation. Bar the Sibelius 3 manual, the best out there.

The ease of use.

Leland. Amazing.

I don't love:

Again, it boils down to a few small things. Firstly, the way in which it "thinks" in bars means that it can be a pain to change your mind about time signatures having already inputted music.
Secondly, the relatively antiquated way of adding dynamics, tempo markings, trills etc. etc. is slow and clunky compared to Dorico's popovers. Thirdly, the auto layout, basically doesn't. Or at least, not terribly well. Finally, when it comes to playback, especially of text such as rallentandos and so on, it is more akin to Sibelius 3 than a modern program.

Conclusions from MuseScore: It is OH SO close to being amazing, but too many things require clunky workarounds to make it (yet) the software of choice for anything apart from relatively simple projects.

I hope you feel I have been fair - although if you don't, I can't do much about it. I reckon people of about my level are the prime users of MuseScore and a sizeable chunk of Dorico users as well, so I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that I'm probably not the only person thinking these things.

Also, I should make it clear that I think both pieces of software are fab - albeit I only have the demo of Dorico so far.

Thoughts? Advice as to which one to choose? Death threats? Fill your boots.

Charlie


Comments

Charlie,

I can't imagine that MuseScore won't fill your needs. Everyone has to do what they feel is best. That's why there are so many choices.
May I reflect on a few of your comments.
You do know that the developer of Sibelius moved over to and started Dorico. You would think that Dorico would be better. But maybe not. I have been a Sibelius user since v4. I went through the Finn Brothers breakup with Sibelius. I find the indignation that resulted from the Avid take over a bit...silly. Especially the non issue of the Ribbon. I had no problem with it. I use v7.5 because I didn't want to pay for a subscription. Your v6 should not be buggy unless there is a computer problem.
Like you, I am looking for notation software because some day Sibelius won't work on some future version of Windows.
There are some things I very much like about MuseScore. There are some playback aspects of MuseScore that I like. But not enough to be able to do serious work. MuseScore promises to be much better. We'll see.

In reply to by bobjp

> Especially the non issue of the Ribbon.

Not a non-issue for me. I've used Sibelius since v1. I used to be lightning-fast when using it until the ribbon showed up. Now, even after what must be at least 8 years of working with it, I still can't easily find the command I'm looking for. It's incredibly frustrating. The way everything changes position or visibility depending on your current window size is a travesty of UI design. It absolutely choked my productivity with the program and I could not ever replicate my speed with the old menu system, even after years of trying. I stuck with it because - despite Avid's years of ugly stepsibling treatment of the program - it still worked great per the original designers' vision.

But when my new mac broke some of Sibelius 7's features and I looked into upgrading, I was shocked to find that in order to simply maintain my current level of functionality with the program, I would need to shell out over $500 US AND sign on for a yearly subscription. After a few (large) calming drinks I started looking at alternate options and found that Musescore had transformed itself when I wasn't paying attention from a low-level open source scoring app to a full-featured, highly competitive notation program that met all of my needs.

Unless you are a high-level professional copyist with specific needs that can't be met by Musescore, there is literally no reason to spend any of your hard-earned $$ on anything else. The Musescore dev team knocked it out of the park with v3.6 and with the impending advent of v4 this program should be on par with literally any other notation program out there.

This has been my TED talk. In conclusion: F*&# the ribbon.

In reply to by Al Loast

Usually TED Talks aren't so negative. Sorry you weren't able to adapt to the ribbon. And the fact that a new Mac wouldn't run 7 is a Mac thing. Not Avid.
Yet, I must confess that I don't care about speed. I input everything with a mouse, after all. I don't prepare scores for musicians. I just care about playback.

In reply to by bobjp

Thing is, Windows 11 won't run Sibelius 6 either. I don't know if its a Windows thing or an Avid thing, but I don't really care - all I know is, it no longer works properly. If Avid would respond to me request for support I might go on using it, but they won't. So the decision is pragmatic, not about apportioning blame.

I am awaiting MuseScore 4 with interest....

In reply to by vintagekmco

What do you mean by "won't run"? Did you try compatibility settings? If you can get it to open, you'll need to register it. https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/error_message/Error-on….
I had an issue recently and Avid support was very helpful. I was searching the knowledge base articles and a chat box opened wanting to know if I needed help. Over two days they finally did a remote session and got my copy registered.

In reply to by bobjp

Yeah - as a MuseScore user, I very much can imagine that it won't totally meet my needs - because it doesn't. It does mostly, but the way it handles multiple movements is horrid, and the clunky playback issues (tacet on repeats, ralls and rits etc.), and the lack of a nice quick cue-maker is all slowing me down. Most of the time that's no issue, but when my orchestral score is running at 160 pages and I'm not yet half way through, wasting 30 seconds each, on each of these issues is worth paying not to have to do.

I love MuseScore, and it is incredibly useful for many many things, but 3.6 at least is nearly, oh so nearly good enough to not drop a tonne of cash on alternative. Nearly....

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