Held piano notes stop playing during playback
First, thanks so much to the dev team/contributors for all of your hard work on MuseScore. I really enjoy using it!
I've run into an issue while working on a piano piece. When a note in one clef/voice is held, either through duration or ties, and a note in the other clef/another voice changes, the first note stops playing during playback. I can't figure out if I'm doing something wrong or if I've encountered a bug.
I've attached an attempt to create a minimal repro for the issue as MusicXML. Apologies for the score's messiness. I was trying to figure out if there's a pattern for when the held note does/doesn't play.
If it turns out to be a bug, I might be able to help. I have a fair bit of C++ experience and some Qt experiernce (code contributions listed on GitHub under "jg18") although maybe a teensy bit rusty.
I've had this issue on both MuseScore 3 and 4. Here's the version info:
OS: Windows 10 (10.0)/Version 2009, Arch.: x86_64
1. MuseScore version (64-bit): 3.6.2.548021803, revision: 3224f34
2. MuseScore version (64-bit): 4.0.0-223072007, revision: 2c34155
Thanks for your help.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| piano_playback_issue_repro.musicxml | 28.8 KB |
Comments
It's hard to tell with piano because the sound decays so fast naturally. Plus it's recorded sound. The result is different from live sound.
In reply to It's hard to tell with piano… by bobjp
Thanks for your quick reply!
I guess the playback is working as intended, then.
FWIW, when I change my repro case (attached to OP) to put a half-note in the treble clef against an 8th-note in the bass clef, the high note is still audible after the low note stops playing.
You're just witnessing the natural decay of a piano sound. If you hit a note on a piano and hold it for 4 minutes, you will not hear the full 4 minutes filled with sound. The note is struck, the piano strings vibrate and dampen and the sound is gone, no matter how much longer you keep the note pressed.
Use the mixer to change the sound to a sustaining instrument (for example one of the organs or a sax..) and you'll notice the notes are played in full, uninterrupted. Thus confirming the playback events for when to start and stop sounding a sample are in fact as they should be.
In reply to You're just witnessing the… by jeetee
> You're just witnessing the natural decay of a piano sound.
Not quite. I just hand-simulated the repro case (attached to the OP) on my home piano. I even set a metronome to ensure I reproduced it faithfully. The high note is clearly audible throughout each measure, whereas with MuseScore's playback, the high note is all but gone by beat 3.
> If you hit a note on a piano and hold it for 4 minutes, you will not hear the full 4 minutes filled with sound. The note is struck, the piano strings vibrate and dampen and the sound is gone, no matter how much longer you keep the note pressed.
Sure, but my repro case holds the note for under 2 seconds. Not sure where "4 minutes" came from.
> Thus confirming the playback events for when to start and stop sounding a sample are in fact as they should be.
Well, if the current rate of decay is considered correct, then I guess we have different notions of how pianos actually work.
Anyway, thanks for your help.
In reply to > You're just witnessing the… by jg18_scp
But again, we are talking playback of recorded sound. What font are you using? I suspect that if you were to try a number of other fonts (especially high quality fonts), you would get different results from each of them. Plus the playback system can make a difference. Speakers or headphones? Computer speakers or quality monitors?
On my system, default piano half note on beat one, cuts off at the start of beat four. If I add a bass quarter note on beat two at the same volume, I think I still hear the upper note.
And why is your file a Musicxml? As it is, both clefs play at the same volume.
And whether or not there is a bug, it probably isn't MuseScore as such. I'm not defending MuseScore. Just saying what makes sense.
In reply to > You're just witnessing the… by jg18_scp
Different pianos work differently. The sustain in the default soundfont is shorter than that of the average grand piano, but not that different from the average upright. Other soundfonts probably sustain longer, so you can try others until you find one that suits you.
In reply to Different pianos work… by Marc Sabatella
> But again, we are talking playback of recorded sound.
Granted.
> What font are you using? I suspect that if you were to try a number of other fonts (especially high quality fonts), you would get different results from each of them.
Currently using the default sound font. I'm definitely interested in trying other fonts but found it difficult to find ones that sounded better for my purposes.
Besides piano, which I mainly use for trying out ideas, I'm currently interested in composing string or brass ensembles (quartets/quintets), so recommendations for sound fonts for those would be much appreciated. Open to suggestions.
> Plus the playback system can make a difference. Speakers or headphones? Computer speakers or quality monitors?
Headphones (JVC HARX 900). Nothing spectacular, but they suit me.
> And why is your file a Musicxml? As it is, both clefs play at the same volume.
Because I figured MusicXML is a universal format. I'm confused on how the choice of MusicXML is connected to volume differences (or lack thereof), though?
> And whether or not there is a bug, it probably isn't MuseScore as such. I'm not defending MuseScore. Just saying what makes sense.
Ok, thanks. Hopefully using a different sound font will help.
> Different pianos work differently. The sustain in the default soundfont is shorter than that of the average grand piano, but not that different from the average upright. Other soundfonts probably sustain longer, so you can try others until you find one that suits you.
The selected instrument is "Grand Piano" but I get that's just a label.
As mentioned, I'm interested in trying other sound fonts and am open to suggestions.
Thanks again for your help.
In reply to > But again, we are talking… by jg18_scp
FWIW, I wouldn't spend a lot of time messing with soundfonts in MuseScore 3 right now. Instead, I'd suggest checking out the beta of MuseScore 4 (see announcements forum) and trying Muse Sounds, and/or any of the various VST instruments you can now use.
In reply to > But again, we are talking… by jg18_scp
I mentioned playback systems because different systems sound different. I am often amazed and disappointed at the difference. On my car stereo those dang trumpets are too loud. They were fine on the computer. Wait... the oboe is gone altogether. The strings sounded smooth on my phone. They sound harsh on my home stereo.
You try other fonts from the download page, just to test your piano theory.
You said MU4 did the same thing. Again try other playback systems. Not that anything is wrong with yours.
We all work differently. I write mainly for small orchestra. I stopped writing at the piano many years ago when I got notation software. Piano doesn't blend the same way strings or brass do. I just open a blank score and start entering notes. I seldom have and idea of what I want to do until I have a few measures down. The music takes me where it wants me to go. I know that sounds disorganized. But it works for me. I'm working on my first piece in MU4. It's taking longer because of the delays selecting notes.
In reply to I mentioned playback systems… by bobjp
> FWIW, I wouldn't spend a lot of time messing with soundfonts in MuseScore 3 right now. Instead, I'd suggest checking out the beta of MuseScore 4 (see announcements forum) and trying Muse Sounds, and/or any of the various VST instruments you can now use.
Alas, I'm getting crackling noise during playback with MU4. I tried both the basic playback system and Muse Sounds (got sounds through Muse Hub). I guess this is a known issue - https://musescore.org/en/node/334243
I don't think I've had that issue with MU3. Will MU3 support be dropped once MU4 is stable?
> I mentioned playback systems because different systems sound different. I am often amazed and disappointed at the difference. On my car stereo those dang trumpets are too loud. They were fine on the computer. Wait... the oboe is gone altogether. The strings sounded smooth on my phone. They sound harsh on my home stereo.
Alas, headphones are realistically my only option. I am legally blind and use high-speed text-to-speech software (NVDA screen reader) to use a computer, so I'm listening all the time.
> You try other fonts from the download page, just to test your piano theory.
YDP font was about the same. Salamander might have been better in this regard but not sure how I felt about the font in general. I might try the SFZ fonts but will otherwise just deal with this.
> You said MU4 did the same thing. Again try other playback systems. Not that anything is wrong with yours.
See above about crackling noise with MU4 and requirement to use headphones.
Thanks again for your help.
In reply to > FWIW, I wouldn't spend a… by jg18_scp
MU4 playback
Edit/Preferences/ (I/O)/change buffersize to 4096.
In the MuseHub there is an update to the original Beta.
Nightlies work also.
I had problems too before doing the above.
In reply to > FWIW, I wouldn't spend a… by jg18_scp
> "I don't think I've had that issue with MU3. Will MU3 support be dropped once MU4 is stable?"
Yes, but no, but yes, but it's already so, but no ;-)
Will we stop answering forum posts from MS3 users? No, just like we're currently still answering those concerning MS2 users. Just make sure to clarify you're using v3 in your enquiries and be aware that there's a good chance that "consider upgrading to MS4" will be part of many answers.
Will bugs in MS3 be fixed? No, the last version of MS3 is 3.6.2 for over a year already and there is no intention to release a future 3.x update. This will not change with the release of MS4.
In reply to > FWIW, I wouldn't spend a… by jg18_scp
As mentioned, some systems need a larger buffer size in Edit / Preferences / I/O. Probably that will fix the issue for you too.
MuseScore 4 will have improved screen reader support, BTW. But realistically, NVDA was the one screen reader MuseScore 3 already supported pretty well right out of the box.
As mentioned, though, MuseScore 3 will continue to work and receive the same sort of community-based support that other releases do. Not that you'll need it once you increase your buffer size - MuseScore 4 should be an improvement pretty much across the board.
In reply to As mentioned, some systems… by Marc Sabatella
Increasing the buffer size fixed the crackling, thanks!
Cool about the accessibility support being even better in MU4. As you said, it's pretty good even now.
I'll try the Muse Keys, but otherwise, I think the original question may just be a difference in how live sound vs. synth sound works.
Thanks again for your help.