Unable to create two voices
In a piece I'm currently engraving, I need two voices for some instruments, e.g. Clarinets and Bassoons.
For some reason, it is not always possible to create two voices. In the attached picture created from a mini example mscz file, I've highlighted the problems in measure 2 and 4. In the latter one it's surprisingly only a problem for the first half of the measure.
Am I doing something wrong or is this some sort of a bug?
Apparently, there is a similar github issue https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/25416 for something like this, but it's related to percussion music.
I'm using
OS: Windows 11 Version 2009 or later, Arch.: x86_64,
MuseScore Studio version (64-bit): 4.4.4-243461245, revision: 2232670
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| TwoVoicesProblem.mscz | 19.18 KB |
| TwoVoicesProblem1.jpg | 63.76 KB |
Comments
Make sure to have read and understood https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/working-multiple-voices
In reply to Make sure to have read and… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks, I've read through this but maybe not understood all flavours available.
However, up to now, I never had a problem generating voices but in this particular piece, triplets are involved and with this, the problem started.
In summary, in this pieces and without triplets' there are no problems generating voices but where I've triplets, there are problems.
Nevertheless, when I'm at home again, I will try to experiment a little more.
In reply to Thanks, I've read through… by TomStrand
I've tried with your score and had no problem at all
In reply to Thanks, I've read through… by TomStrand
I tried it on Linux, check if the attachment allows you the changes.
In reply to Make sure to have read and… by Jojo-Schmitz
It works, but maybe it's because I would have expected the second voice to be visible to insert notes with the mouse (I've not yet so advanced that i use shortcuts. They are so different from Lilypond that I always stumble and do something stupid but one day I might be there).
Anyway, using the steps described in the HB, i.e.
1. Select your starting point in the score
==> ok, that's what I doing
2. Click the pen icon on the toolbar or press N to enter note input mode
==> ok, that's what I doing (I use the pen symbol)
3. Select the desired voice using the toolbar icons or press one of the keyboard shortcuts Ctrl+Alt+1–Ctrl+Alt+4
==> i use the toolbar icon. No second voice is visible at this time in the score.
4. Enter notes and rests normally as described in Entering notes =
= > this is where I stumbled because it's only when you actually try to insert a note, in my case with the mouse, it's placed and become visible in the yet invisible voice 2.
The method I used to create a second voice was, I read it somewhere in the HB or maybe in the forum, is to first write the 1st voice. Then activate all bars or parts of bars where a second voice is needed and then selecting voice 2 from the toolbar. That "moves" voice 1 to voice 2 and creates all the required rests in voice 1 above voice 2. Then in a second step I declare, pressing the toolbar icon for voice 1, declaring voice 2 from the previous step as voice 1 and then I can just enter the notes instead of the rests as needed, in the voice 2. It always works without exception, except today when I had triplets in the music I tried to engrave.
Maybe wrong, but why didn't it work with triplets in the measures?
Edit.
When I tried to use the HB approach for measure 4 of my example (It's where half of the measure shows only one voice and the second half two voices) and inserted a full measure rest, it's is placed at the beginning of the bar and not as expected in the middle of the bar, why? NB, by pressing 0 (rest) an 1/8 rest is created but this is redefined by pressing the full measure rest icon in the tool bar.
You can correct it by pressing ctrl + shift + delete but why is it wrong in the first place because a full measure rest should always be placed in the middle of a measure without exception?
In reply to It works, but maybe it's… by TomStrand
As an end user I can tell you how I use the program, not why it works the way it does...
For rests
Opening a new score I select a measure I use the 'Enter notes' button (pen icon); I press the 'Voice two' button and then zero;
I select the rest and enter the triplet.
In reply to As an end user I can tell… by Shoichi
Thanks, obviously it works but I was "misled" by the fact i didn't see anything in voice 2 before I actually selected 0 or a note. With "my method", I just had to fill in the rests with notes.
In reply to It works, but maybe it's… by TomStrand
FWIW, In the 15 years I've used notation software, I've always used mouse input.
When you select a starting point and press N to enter input mode, the cursor should be blue. Indicating voice 1. When you press voice 2 in the tool bar, the cursor should turn from blue to green. Depending on you screen settings, this change is not always easy to see. Perhaps try voice 3 instead. it is pink.
I have no idea about the triplets.
In reply to FWIW, In the 15 years I've… by bobjp
Ok, yes it change from blue to green, hardly visible. In Lilypond I always use the keyboard input because there is no other way but on MS, it's hard to learn the very different shortcuts.
By the way, I've a large curved display 40" and a resolution of 3440 x 1440 and the laptop display as well, of course.
The (non-standard) way that I do it:
1] set up a shortcut:
Edit >Preferences >Shortcuts
Type "voice" in the search box
Double-click on Exchange voice 1-2
Set a shortcut (I use [Ctrl] 1)
2] To use the shortcut:
Click anywhere in the measure or select a range of measures
Press [Ctrl] 1 - this flips Voice 1 to Voice 2 and creates a whole measure rest - in the middle
Wanted to create a second voice but not flip it? Press [Ctrl] 1 1
In reply to The (non-standard) way that… by underquark
Thanks, I try when I've time. Just now I've to finish a piece for the orchestra rehearsal tomorrow evening.
In reply to Thanks, I try when I've time… by TomStrand
" this is where I stumbled because it's only when you actually try to insert a note, in my case with the mouse, it's placed and become visible in the yet invisible voice 2."
I don't know what you mean by "yet invisible voice 2". You're obviously experimenting, and still lack the practice to understand how MuseScore works. We've all been there, too. 😉
On the GIF below, I started by deleting the rests in Voice 2 to start from scratch.
"The method I used to create a second voice was, I read it somewhere in the HB or maybe in the forum, is to first write the 1st voice. Then activate all bars or parts of bars where a second voice is needed and then selecting voice 2 from the toolbar. That "moves" voice 1 to voice 2 and creates all the required rests in voice 1 above voice 2"
I'm not sure you've read or understood things correctly, but you don't need to do this to input a second voice. It's an unnecessary complication.
" in the voice 2. It always works without exception, except today when I had triplets in the music I tried to engrave."
Especially as this is a known limitation with triplets. Changing to another voice fails with the toolbar voice selector - this is the second part of the GIF
The "real" feature for this kind of voices exchange can be found in the menu Tools / Voices / Exchange voice1-voice2 etc.
But again, you don't need it here. When voice 1 is entered, go back to where you want to start voice 2 and the input is made in exactly the same way as for Voice1 (I started with the mouse, and continued with the keyboard, just to go faster!). - Last part of the GIF.
In reply to " this is where I stumbled… by cadiz1
I'm still a beginner of MS and the shortcuts/keyboard inputs are still extremely cryptic for me so I tend to rely on the mouse inputs, not for everything but most of the operations.
What I meant with the yet "yet invisible voice" is that except for the change of colour, which is hardly visible, you only see a result when you insert something, a rest or a note. Then they become visible in the score.
The problem with the triplets was unknown to me, hence I made another posting about this because I've only seen this in a github issue related to percussion music.
But, no problem. Thanks for the help in this forum. I'm still in the beginning phase of MS. In Lilypond, which I've been using for at least 15 years, everything is visible in the ASCII "code", you just have to understand it🤣😂
In reply to I'm still a beginner of MS… by TomStrand
Interesting. There are no invisible voice notes on my system. How do you start to enter notes?
In reply to I'm still a beginner of MS… by TomStrand
"What I meant with the yet "yet invisible voice" is that except for the change of colour, which is hardly visible"
Hardly visible? Really? This is the only manifestation of the change of voice indeed, and I don't recall any particular recrimination on this point.
But if you feel that way, why not. Just know that you can customize the color of these voices. Go to the menu Edit / Préférences / Advanced : Voices color.
For example:if you change the Voice 2 to say, an orange (or other) color, the change of cursor color with the blue of Voice1 will be more obvious.
In reply to I'm still a beginner of MS… by TomStrand
What I don't really understand is why the colour change when you switch to voice 2 is an issue for you (not visible enough) in measures 2 and 4 and not the other measures?
In reply to What I don't really… by frfancha
And I am (was) a Lilypond user myself, honestly if you know Lilypond then I'm sure you could quickly and easily master, surely not all, but at least the core of musescore keyboard commands.