Playback of Chord Symbols
In the early phase of song writing I use a simple score with "voice" to write the vocal melody and maybe some preliminary lyrics. I use chord symbols to write the chord progression (as maybe many others do as well). It would be very helpful to actually hear the chords together with the melody.
What I currently do, is to add a piano line and insert the chords with a very basic rhythm, sometimes just whole of half notes. When I'm in the process of writing / rewriting melody and chord progression, it would be much faster if I only had to rewrite the chords and leave writing the piano arrangement to to the phase when the basic composition is done.
I would propose the following:
- At minimum Piano sound only, the luxury variant would be free choice on the sound
- default duration whole note (Luxury variant: some configurable value)
- repeated until the next chord symbol
- if the next chord symbol follows shorter than the default duration, than this should be use as the duration instead.
see also attached file.
Regards,
Robert
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Playback_of_chord_symbols.mscz | 5.78 KB |
Comments
Main problem is finding a suitable voicing for these chords. Also depends on the instrument, I guess, like Piano might have a voicing different to Guitar.
Another is the rhythm, whether to play any (and which) or to play the chord only once per symbol.
In reply to Main problem is finding a… by Jojo-Schmitz
My proposal above was to play it once per symbol, but at least once per measure. The voicing could be something very simple, just any default voicing resulting in the desired chord. Not necessary editable, that would be luxury. The goal is not to have something sounding good, just to hear your melody in the right harmonic context. If specific rhythms or voicings are desired, I's time to add a staff and typing notes :-)
I have the same problem when composing/arranging for a Big Band. The guitar part is usually written using dummy notes (all in the same stave position) and the chord symbol over the notes where the chord changes. The notes have a slash notehead but the rhythm is shown explicitly using different note values and rests in the conventional way.
Musescore is great for everything except this instrument. When checking how the piece sounds I have to set the guitar sound level to mute otherwise I just get a repeated single note. Consequently I'm unable to hear how the guitar fits in with the other instruments. I'm quite surprised that such an excellent application has never addressed this issue before.
Reegards
Alan
In reply to I have the same problem when… by awillkey
This feature would be very useful. There have been a number of posts requesting it, so I suspect it is something that would find a wide welcome. I certainly would use it.
As to the matter of MuseScore playing back the chord rather than the "dummy note," I wonder if an option could be added to the Inspector for the note - a toggle between "Play note as written" and "Play Chord."
In reply to I have the same problem when… by awillkey
FWIW, you shouldn't need to be manually adding these dummy notes at all. Just use Edit / Tools / Fill With Slashes. This automatically fills the selected region with such dummy notes, already set to be forced to middle line (they won't transpose), to be stemless, and to be silent. Thus, no need to mute anything, and other regular notes for guitar will sound normally. Plus it's just a ton easier.
What I will sometimes do if I feel the need to hear some sort of playback of the chord symbols is add a dummy instrument, add the notes I want for playback, then set the staff invisible in Edit / Instruments.
Intelligent playback of chord symbols, particular in a jazz context, is a very complex problem, one that is currently addressed by other tools like Impro-visor. So thus far we've tried to focus on notation. But no doubt, some day we'll have mastered enough of that that attention can turn to more esoteric playback details like this.
In reply to FWIW, you shouldn't need to… by Marc Sabatella
"shouldn't need to be manually adding these dummy notes at all. Just . . . Fill With Slashes."
But I think what WillKey was intending by "dummy notes" was not the generic slashes that get entered with Fill With Slashes indicating only that a predetermined default rhythm is to be played through those measures, but instead notes that themselves indicate the specific rhythm to be played. "Accent notes"? "The notes have a slash notehead but the rhythm is shown explicitly using different note values and rests in the conventional way." In other words, MuseScore would play back the rhythm indicated by the notes using the pitches indicated by the chord symbol. The Slashes do not specify a specific rhythm. These "dummy notes" would - MuseScore would ignore the pitch of the dummy notes, but use the "note value" information of the notes to generate the rhythm with which it plays back the chord indicated by the chord symbol.
"Intelligent playback of chord symbols . . . is a very complex problem." I can certainly appreciate that! So thank you for pointing us toward Impro-visor.
In reply to "shouldn't need to be… by Glenn Blank
MuseScore supports all three styles of slash notation - simple beat slashes, rhythmic notation on the staff, or accents above/below. So never any need to.resort to doing any of that manually. See the Handbook under Tools to learn more.
In reply to MuseScore supports all three… by Marc Sabatella
Yes, thank you for the clarification. You still have to enter the note values manually before converting them to slashes using Toggle Rhythmic Slash Notation. But once you have converted them, MuseScore automatically fixes them to the center line and ignores playback.
Actually most of suggestions above extend the feature request far beyond it's original intent. I didn't mean to replace conventional notation by something else, but to have a smart facility to ease (shorten) the very, very, very early phase of composition - the one, when you just worry about melody and it's harmonic context. It would be welcome to hear the chord symbols together with the melody. No fancy playback of special voicings or rhythms, no "lead sheet sounding like a fully arranged score". This is arrangement work and MuseScore is already very well suited for that purpose.
Sorry, but the "If we do it, why not doing it right from the beginning" thinking is the most frequent reason why feature request get rejected ;-)
I agree however, that playback of chordsymbols using the rhythm of the slash notation sounds cool and tempting, but this could be another feature request later on :-)
In reply to Actually most of suggestions… by drowo
Still, it is worth considering the reasoning behind the "if we do it, why not do it right from the beginning" thinking, because there is value to it. Not that one has to actually implement the most full-scale solution all at once, but it would be doing a disservice to people to implement one limited first version of a scheme today, and then later, when developing a more full-scale solution, end up breaking the first version, or removing it, or compromising the design of the full-scale feature to avoid impacting the first version, or attempting to leave both versions in place and thus creating confusion for new users and maintenance headaches going forward. Which is to say it is import to design for the full feature up front to avoid making mistakes implementing a more limited first version that everyone will have reason to regret later.
FWIW, I've decided to make this the topic of my "MuseScore Cafe" - streaming video chat sessions - for this week.
EDIT: and here is the archived video:
https://youtu.be/iaca_EAmBCE
In reply to FWIW, I've decided to make… by Marc Sabatella
I watched the archived video, thanks for providing that. The way you showed is pretty much the way I do it now, except that I do not hide the piano staff. The "iceberg voicing" plus "root bass below d" you described, with the simple block chords, that is exactly what I had in mind with this playback of chord symbols feature.
In reply to I watched the archived video… by drowo
Watched it too, unfortunately it doesn't help me at all, as I'm lacking the musical background to build all these chords myself, Which is why I'd really like MuseScore to do that job for me ;-)
That cheat-sheet you announced might help though
In reply to FWIW, I've decided to make… by Marc Sabatella
I spent longer on this than I planned and still have little confidence there are not transposition errors but maybe I can crowd-source the proofreading :-) Here is what I have:
https://musescore.com/marcsabatella/scores/5236325
To use, just copy and paste voicings from this score to your own chord by chord.
It's not just a literal transposition of the original "C" voicings into 12 keys, as that would get far too high by the time you reached "B". So I adjust the voicings after each transposition to keep them more or less centered around middle "C. Also, I ended up adding quite a few more chords, to have a more complete set of basic triads and seventh chords as well as a handful of common "jazz" voicings.
Anyhow, I welcome feedback, whether here, in comments on my score on musescore.com, or in comments on the video!
In reply to I spent longer on this than… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for providing that cheat sheet! It is really helpful, although I know the most common triads and 7th chords. I haven't done a real proofreading, but if I detect something I'll let you know :-)
In reply to Thanks for providing that… by drowo
Thanks for the feedback!
Now that I have so many chords that each root is its own page, I do wonder if a simplified version with just all major and minor triads plus dominant seventh would be useful - that could be the first page of the score, then the more complete versions following?
In reply to Thanks for the feedback!… by Marc Sabatella
No, I would leave it this way. It's good as it is.
In reply to Thanks for the feedback!… by Marc Sabatella
I wanted to hear my music as authentically as possible. I found a website that showed how to play any chord on a guitar. As a result, I could replace the dummy note and chord symbol by an appropriate 4, 5 or 6 note chord. (Obviously I was doing this on a copy of my master score.)
If someone is going to implement this feature, I suggest that this level of research is needed first. BTW I discovered a couple of instances where I had written chords that don't exist. Perhaps Musescore should not have let me do that.
In reply to I wanted to hear my music as… by awillkey
For almost any chord on a guitar there are multiple ways to play it.
Marc's sample score is for chords on Piano, which is an entirely different beast.
So a "Chord playback" feature would need to know which instrument to use
In reply to I wanted to hear my music as… by awillkey
To hear music as authentical as possible ist quite simple in MuseScore: choose the instrument(s) you need and write the notes you want to hear explicity in one or multiple staves ;-)
"I wanted to hear my music as authentically as possible" is not the intent of my feature request "playback of chord symbols".
In reply to To hear music as authentical… by drowo
Still having the choice of Piano or Guitar chords for this playback would help
In reply to Still having the choice of… by Jojo-Schmitz
The voicing I picked are indeed intended for piano, but don't necessarily sound terrible on guitar. They might be how most guitarists would choose to play them (the notes would need to be spread out more in most cases to be easily playable), but again since the goal is to just get a general idea of how the song sounds, and since each guitar player will play the chords differently anyhow, it should be fine really.
In reply to To hear music as authentical… by drowo
Agreed, but it has surely become clear that there are other users with needs for chord symbol playback that are sufficiently similar to yours that they should be considered at the same time.
In reply to I wanted to hear my music as… by awillkey
As mentioned, there are a practically infinite number of ways to play any given chord, no matter the
instrument. That is, any sufficiently experienced guitar player could show you at least a dozen ways of playing a "G" chord, not just the one that beginners typically learn. A pianist would be able to show you far more, an orchestral arranger more still, etc.
As for writing "chords that don't exist", can you explain what you mean? MuseScore allows you type pretty much anything within reason. Just because you don't find a symbol on some web site listing some finite set of guitar chords doesn't mean the chord doesn't exist.
In reply to As mentioned, there are a… by Marc Sabatella
One chord that I believe doesn't exist is Xm7b9. I tried putting it in a score a few years back and the guitarist said there was no such chord.
In reply to One chord that I believe… by awillkey
Just tried a Am7b9 on the piano and ist doesn't sound very nice :-) But I don't think MuseScore should prevent such things. We are musician, so let our ears decide.
In reply to Just tried a Am7b9 on the… by drowo
I don't think it's a chord's task to sound nice ;-)
In reply to One chord that I believe… by awillkey
If you mean literally an "X", then indeed, the root of the chord needs to be an actual note, A-G (or H if you're German, or Finnish). But we do allow you to enter things that aren't necessarily actual notes, since people often use chord symbols for purposes that require it.
If you mean just something like Am7b9, that is indeed a real chord, and in the right context, with the right voicing and the right resolution, can be very beautiful.
In reply to If you mean literally an "X"… by Marc Sabatella
And beauty is in the ear of the beholder ;-)
I fully support this suggestion with one reservation, that being the selection of piano as the default instrument. Better to have an instrument with a sustained note e.g. keyboard.
In reply to I fully support this… by [DELETED] 12418911
Having a hard time understanding your comment.
i) The default instrument would surely be the one indicated in the score. So if guitar then it would not be helpful to hear a piano.
ii) How does a piano (a percussion instrument) have a sustained note? Organ yes.
iii) Why do you think there needs to be a default instrument? We are talking about a score where an instrument (such as guitar) is scored with an indication of rhythm and chord. The instrument is a given.
In reply to Having a hard time… by awillkey
Well, not with for example a plain vocal score, with chord symbols for whoever is doing the accompaniment, could be piano or guitar or something else (but usually one of those 2?).
And even on a guitar score it is not a given that chord symbols are played by a guitar, sure not by the same guitar, as that has notes/tabs already? Unless it is slash notation, only in that case it makes sense to use the same instrument for playing the chord symbols.
There is current a GSoC project in the making for chord realization
In reply to Having a hard time… by awillkey
You wote: "We are talking about a score where an instrument (such as guitar) is scored with an indication of rhythm and chord."
No, that absolutely not what I had in mind. The requested function targets song writing in form of leadsheets with a written (vocal) melody and chord symbols for harmony. The purpose is to hear the (vocal) melody in it's harmonic context.
The use case you describe is a different one.
In reply to You wote: "We are talking… by drowo
and for the harmony context it is pretty irrelevant which instrument gets used (as long as it is polyphonic), piano, organ or guitar would work
In reply to You wote: "We are talking… by drowo
Actually I should have named to feature request "Playback of Chord Symbols in Leadsheets" to avoid confusion with other use cases for playing back chord symbols like the one indicated by @awillkey. But it's too late to change the title.
In reply to Having a hard time… by awillkey
How does a piano (a percussion instrument) have a sustained note? Organ yes
By Keyboard I meant organ. The thread is well past that stage so please ignore my comment.
In reply to How does a piano (a… by [DELETED] 12418911
Piano is a percussion instrument?
In reply to Piano is a percussion… by Jojo-Schmitz
In a sense yes, piano is a percussion instrument.
In reply to In a sense yes, piano is a… by frfancha
Pitched percussion :-)
Yes, sure. The main problem is finding a suitable voicing for these chords!
In reply to Yes, sure. The main problem… by Zara Liberman
And this indeed is what the current GSoC project is trying to achieve
A basic playback of chord symbols would be a extremely useful feature also for me!
Thanks for considering.
I made a Musescore 3.0 plugin that expands chord symbols into notes. It can handle most chords including complex jazz chords. The results are almost identical to Mark Sabatella's suggested voicings. Try it and let me know what you think. The plugin is here... https://musescore.org/en/project/expand-chord-symbols-notes
In reply to I made a Musescore 3.0… by markshepherd
This is aready part of the standard functionality of "playback of chord symbols" feature in Musescore coming with v3.5. It is already merged to master and available in the nightlies.