Unison instruments
I've found that the only way to ' naturalize' unison passages is by detuning some of the instruments. This makes sense because when real musicians play the same notes on the same horns, they definitely do NOT play in perfect unison. Detuning in MuseScore seems to be on a note-at-a-time basis, but it would be useful for playback if a group of notes could be detuned with one click. In other words, select a small passage and detune, as a group by 10 cents or so .
I realize that MuseScore is primarily a notation platform and the playback niceties are not the main focus, but this capability would save a lot of time when a natural sound is preferred. I'm completing a jazz big band score where I've taken the time to try and naturalize the sound, and I'll upload it when I'm done so the improvement in playback is apparent.
Comments
I'm French........in unisson passages the sound is too strong because the "phase". If the play back is important for you, use "SILENT" in the INSPECTOR for 1 or 2 or more staves for these passages, to get the volume you want. I work for Big-Bands and Concert Bands, and I have often this Problem
In reply to I'm French........in unisson… by Raymond Wicquart
I fully understand the 'phase' issue with unisons. But your solution simply reduces the problem to a single instrument. That wasn't my concern. I wanted to simulate a group of performers in unison, which can't be done without detuning.
In reply to I fully understand the … by chasbo
There are many sound fonts that include both single instrument and section instruments such as Aegean symphonic orchestra found at https://sites.google.com/view/hed-sounds/aegean-symphonic-orchestra. The download link is hidden below all of the bullet points about the sound font and starts "Download:"
Using a sound font such as this, you can assign group and solo sounds as needed.
In reply to There are many sound fonts… by mike320
I really appreciate the responsiveness of the MuseScore forums. I'd like to know, if you can tell me, exactly what is the difference between the sound of a solo instrument and one in a group. Do all instruments in a section play the same pitch? If so, the only difference will be in the relative amplitudes of the harmonics. If all members of a section play the same note, once the sound is recorded it will only be discerned as a single voice. Even changing the panning won't fix this. Don't get me wrong -- some of these soundfonts are very realistic when they are constructed from recordings of real musicians. But duplicating the sound will not be perceived as two musicians.
In reply to I really appreciate the… by chasbo
2 instruments are practically never at the exact same tuning but off by a few Hertz.
In reply to I really appreciate the… by chasbo
If you listen to a solo instrument and two or more instruments playing the same note, you will hear the difference in sound produced by the different instruments versus the solo instrument. Besides tuning, the musicians play at slightly different volumes and every instrument has a distinct sound due to various differences from one instrument to another.
Examples that make the sounds slightly different are the material the instruments are made of (slightly different brass alloys for example), the shapes of the instruments may vary slightly. On strings the strings material differs from one manufacturer to another, on reeded instruments different musicians like different hardness on the reed and embouchure makes a huge difference in the sound from one wind instrument to another.
These are but a few of the things that affect the sound of one instrument versus another. The more instruments, the more the sound will change from the solo. In a sound font, it's possible a single instrument was used with different settings to resemble multiple instruments. If I'm not mistaken, this was done at times in the Aegean sound font I use.
You can select and detune a group of notes.
After selecting them, look in the bottom of the Inspector, where it says 'Select'. Click on 'Notes', then detune them all in 'Tuning'.
In reply to You can select and detune a… by Jm6stringer
Thanks. I didn't know this.
If I want really nice playback, I create separate staves for each instrument, and then I assign different instruments to them, solving the phase issue. I made my own soundfont where I have at least two of everything, and often three. But I do orchestra things, so I don't know that it'll help you much, as there aren't any saxes.
I've never thought of making things deliberately out of tune, lol.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6l45bsv92ohxxi5/Symphonic%20Sounds.sf2?dl=0
If you're curious. I do have four badass trombones.
In reply to If I want really nice… by Laurelin
Separate staves does not solve the problem. Normally, all instruments are invoked with the same specific frequency, which is not what 'real' musicians do. I've studied this issue for decades and concluded that different performers will only approximate the intended frequency. For example, the reference frequency for concert A is 440, But if you ask any horn player to play A you will get frequencies betw een about 436 to 445. This variation is present in any ensemble and can only be approximated by detuning.
In reply to Separate staves does not… by chasbo
It certainly exists in most ensembles. I'm not convinced it exists in professional ensembles. I saw the Philadelphia Orchestra perform La Mer and they were as perfectly in tune as I've ever heard people be.
The community orchestra I play in, this is true. The professional ones I've seen, I'm not convinced. But hey, I'll try it on a score and see what the result is.
The separate staves are not the only thing with what I'm doing here. The soundfont - 90% of it is actual samples from actual instruments, which is why it's so large. If you have two different clarinets playing together, like Clarinet SSO and Laura's Clarinet from the soundfont, it really, truly, 100% sounds like real unison instruments. Unison instruments on a pretty good day, maybe, but I don't want to listen to them on a bad day.
Musescore isn't letting me MP3 you, so here's what I'm talking about - Turn down your headphones, apparently the mp3 converter is loud:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mol8p051lyc47s9/UnisonClarinet.mp3?dl=0
In reply to It certainly exists in most… by Laurelin
Thanks for the link. Could you elaborate on the point you're making? Whenever any two (or more) instruments play the same note they are in unison (that's what the word means). But this thread was started to examine the need for two players in unison to sound like two players. It's well known that if you make two staves for two identical instruments and copy the notes on one staff to the other, it will sound like one player, just a little louder. If you take one trombone, for example, from one soundfont and take the other from a different soundfont the two instruments may be separately identified, but just changing the volume levels of one of the instruments from the same soundfont will not help. The key parameter which distinguishes multiple players in unison is the actual pitch. In your example, the two clarinets are not on the exact same pitch, but are different by a few cents.