Is it normal for a Violinist to play notes higher than its acceptable range?
I'm not sure if this song (https://soundcloud.com/picklechan-chan/jekyll-and-hyde-hatsune-miku-and…) has the violins played that high. I may be tripping, but this also brings up a something I don't understand.
As you can see the notes are being colored "yellow", do violinists ever play that high?
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Comments
Yellow is still in the professional range
In reply to Yellow is still in the… by Jojo-Schmitz
Phew, I thought it was impossible to play. Good to know, thanks!
In reply to Phew, I thought it was… by Haoto 2
outside pro-range notes are marked red
Be aware the clef for the violin is the octave-transposing clef (the little 8 above it) so everything is an octave higher than it looks. This is not standard and not a good idea at all, violinists are not used to reading that and it will likely confuse them.
Violin like many instruments has no one absolute highest note you can play, it depends on the skill of the player and also how you want that note player (gradually working up to it is easier than just playing one random high note, etc).
In reply to Be aware the clef for the… by Marc Sabatella
That is, "the clef in your example is the octave-transposing clef"; the treble clef without transposition is used for violin in practice, without exception.
In reply to That is, "the clef in your… by [DELETED] 1831606
Right, that's what I meant, thanks for the clarification!
In reply to Be aware the clef for the… by Marc Sabatella
Yea, I put that deliberately because it takes up a lot of space of the sheet.
In reply to Yea, I put that deliberately… by Haoto 2
The score should be designed for the violinist's convenience, not your convenience.
In reply to Yea, I put that deliberately… by Haoto 2
FWIW, I sometimes "cheat" and use clefs to make my life easier as a composer/arranger (eg, using an octave treble clef for viola rather than alto!) but then it is important to fix the clefs when you are done.
In reply to FWIW, I sometimes "cheat"… by Marc Sabatella
Can't Violinists just adapt/learn to the play the "octave-transposing clef"? Wouldn't it be the same as 8va octava alta? I usually treat those like sight-reading. Don't we musicians normally go through those kind of problems?
Anyway.. Can you tell me if it's possible for violinist to play this part? The red box*
In reply to Can't Violinists just adapt… by Haoto 2
I certainly can't tell you if that is executable on violin on two strings. You'd need a violinist. How well do you read alto or mezzo-soprano clef (old C clefs)? You can just learn.
I don't think it is reasonable for someone to attempt to write virtuosic music for an instrument they do not play. My opinion indeed doesn't matter, but good luck finding violinists interested in playing music written without knowledge of the violin. For you, who do not play the violin, to tell violinists "they should learn to read the clefs I use" is extremely presumptuous.
MuseScore can play any notes you write. You shouldn't need real violinists.
In reply to I certainly can't tell you… by [DELETED] 1831606
I don't know what to say, I apologize.
["they should learn to read the clefs I use" is extremely presumptuous.]
I said we as a whole, that sounded like I thought all musicians are on the same boat. I'm really bad at interpreting what I want to say... Please give me some time.
Also, I just remembered something critical. String instruments aren't flexible in changing Key Signatures, correct? The song that I'm currently arranging starts with G Major, then A Flat Major, A Major, lastly D Major. Would it be possible to play the entire song without tuning them during performance?
In reply to I don't know what to say, I… by Haoto 2
String instruments do not have to tune to a particular key. The CONCERT HARP requires tuning during a piece. Violas, violins, cellos, etc. do not retune during hour-long symphonies and three-hour operas (except to fix tuning that has slipped between movements sometime) which change key hundreds of times. As a matter of fact, they are almost never (in modern music) tuned any way except the standard way.
You should not be writing music for instruments about which you know so little. I am an organist. I cannot, and would not, attempt to write music for shakuhachi, shenai, sarod, or erhu, even though I like these instruments and their sounds, and have even seen them played. Use MuseScore to express your musical creativity and fantasy as much as you want. No professional or even amateur instrumentalist will play compositions written with zero knowledge of their instrument. MuseScore is a beautiful thing. Exploit it. Don't worry about what real instruments and instrumentalists can play.
In reply to String instruments do not… by [DELETED] 1831606
I do write for symphonic and big band instruments although I do not play any of them. Actually I doubt that even great composer could really play ALL of them. But one can of course learn their properties good enough "theoretically" to be able to write music for them. I surely avoid any lines requiring virtuousity on a particular instrument (e.g. violin). I would leave that definitely to a composing violinist or very experienced composers which frequently had the chance to get feedback on their compositions from real players.
In reply to I do write for symphonic and… by drowo
Agreed. I said "so little knowledge". "Knowing their properties well enough" is the heart of the issue.
In reply to Agreed. I said "so little… by [DELETED] 1831606
I tried googling everything I can think off, but I don't even know what the name of rules are, haha.
I arrange music sheets for people who're interested in trying, where all of my work are considerably "playable". That's the issue I'm facing.
I doubt that there'll be anyone willing to play this arrangement of mine (which is done btw : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eFh-nw2wwM), but I'll always have the objective of making it playable for someone out there.
In reply to I tried googling everything… by Haoto 2
Have you tried this?
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Academy
It is a quite nice source for knowhow in instrumentology.
In reply to I tried googling everything… by Haoto 2
Good for you! Don't stop! Enjoy yourself, and try to get other people interested both to play your music and help you learn more! Yayy!!! Don't stop!
In reply to Can't Violinists just adapt… by Haoto 2
Yes, in theory, violinists could learn to read the octave-transposing clef, or to get used to ottava lines for notes that actually aren't all that high. They could also in theory learn to play the viola, or to play tennis. That doesn't mean they do. If you want your music to be taken seriously by and played well by violinists, you write it the way they expect to read it. Music reading is about pattern recognition as much as it is about logic or theory. Seeing a note on the second space of the staff, a violinist by habit reaches for that A string. Breaking their concentration each and every note by making them unlearn that habit is a recipe for poorly played music and annoyed musicians.
In reply to Can't Violinists just adapt… by Haoto 2
Haoto 2: "Anyway.. Can you tell me if it's possible for violinist to play this part? The red box*"
Maybe not, so I would avoid it. Violin 2 doesn't look very busy in this measure, so why not let it play the 'a'?
In reply to Can't Violinists just adapt… by Haoto 2
.
In reply to FWIW, I sometimes "cheat"… by Marc Sabatella
Marc Sabatella: "I sometimes "cheat" and use clefs to make my life easier as a composer/arranger"
You call it cheat - I call it workflow ;-)