Bb clarinet note input by letter gives the wrong note
I typed E and got a D in the staff. It was interpreting the e as if it was the normal C clef rather than a transposing instrument. Copy and paste works fine between transposing and other instruments.
Comments
surely problem with the concert pitch button
In reply to surely problem with the… by Raymond Wicquart
Thanks - didn't know this button existed. Button was not pressed. So yes - probably a related test.
I toggled concert pitch on and then off. Then typed e and still got a d (concert pitch).
It should always be the case, though, regardless of the state of the concert pitch button, that typing "E" will place an "E" on the staff (e.g., bottom line, or top space of treble clef). The only thing affected y concert pitch is whether than note sounds like E or D.
So if you are seeing a D entered when typing, something is wrong, and we'd you to attach your score in order to understand. I guess it's also possible you've redefined your keyboard shortcuts so that "E" is in fact the shortcut for "Enter note D", but you'd probably remember having done that. You could go to Edit / Preferences / Shortcuts and press the "Reset All Preferences to Default" button.
In reply to It should always be the case… by Marc Sabatella
You say that e is the "bottom line or top space on the treble clef." But that is not the case for a transposing instrument. The contradiction comes in copying and pasting from one instrument to another when the concert pitch button is not pressed.
1. type in e-f-g etc for an oboe
2. copy to clarinet - paste behaves well and transposes the notes into the equivalent notation
3. type in e-f-g etc for the clarinet
4. copy to oboe - transposition gives d-e-f-g etc
This is obviously inconsistent treatment. Copy and paste transposes. Typing does not.
Do it with concert pitch pressed and there is no contradiction because there is no transposition to do.
In reply to You say that e is the … by Bob MacDonald1
As I said, the physical position of the note on the staff is always consistent with what you type. The top space of treble clef is always read as E. So typing an E always puts a note there, so it reads as E. Whether it plays as E or D is another matter, that is what depends on whether Concert Pitch is engaged or not.
The behavior you describe is absolutely correct as intended and expected by most users and how every single other notation program I know of does it. Copy/paste transposes indeed. Typing does not, because people want to type what they see. If you want to type what you hear, simply turn concert pitch on. Then you can type D and get a D on the page that sounds like a D. Then to see it transposed, simply turn concert pitch back off.
The idea is, you have a choice between entering pitches the way they will look on the transposed/printed page (useful when copying existing music), or the way you want them to sound (useful when composing / arranging music). To enter music the way it looks on the transposed/printed page, enter the notes with concert pitch off. To enter music the way it sounds, enter the notes with concert pitch on.
It's exactly the same in Finale, Sibelius, Dorico, etc.
In reply to As I said, the physical… by Marc Sabatella
@Marc...
You wrote:
If you want to type what you hear, simply turn concert pitch on. Then you can type D and get a D on the page that sounds like a D. Then to see it transposed, simply turn concert pitch back off.
Then, later in the next paragraph, you wrote:
To enter music the way it looks on the transposed/printed page, enter the notes with concert pitch on. T enter music the way it sounds, enter the notes with concert pitch off.
Is this correct?
In reply to @Marc... You wrote: If you… by Jm6stringer
No it is not :-). Thanks for catching the typo, fixed now.
BTW, regarding how things work for typing vs. copy/paste, here's a way to summarize:
typing enters a note that looks literally like what you just typed (the sound is possibly transposed, if concert pitch is off)
paste enters notes that sound like what you copied (the appearance is possibly transposed, if concert pitch is on)
This is, again, the way most people would expect it to work, and it is how virtually every other notation program does it, because it is so natural.
In reply to You say that e is the … by Bob MacDonald1
Do it with concert pitch pressed and there is no contradiction because there is no transposition to do.
...which is why concert pitch is used by those who do not wish to do the transposition in their heads.
For example, in your step 3, you first type the letter E for the transposed (not concert pitch) Bb clarinet. As you are aware, the Bb clarinet sounds a whole step lower than notes written for an oboe. So for the oboe to sound like a Bb clarinet's E it must play a D - which is a step lower.