B-agpipe M-usic W-riter format: Suffix "BWW" is wrong. "Jolting Embellishments" have re-appeared

• May 13, 2020 - 03:07

Hello, Development Teamsters, hello, David,

since I am a native German and guitar player (and not a Scot), it may come as a surprise that I occasionally play the bagpipes on MuseScore.com. See for example https://musescore.org/en/node/82941 or https://musescore.com/user/28092/scores/5987607

Easy to explain why: I am a "folkie", play the tin whistle among other things, and have a soft spot for Celtic folklore (Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Brittany). The harmonies and the "embellishments" like the bagpipes appear for example with the Tin Whistle, but also in the songs and arrangements of artists like Andy Irvine, Luke Kelly, Dolores Keane, Karine Polwart, Malinky and others.

Under MuseScore 2.,02 I already had a deeper exchange of ideas with "Leon Vinken", "muselt" and "Marc Sabatella" in October 2015, because MS 2.02. only "stumbled and stammered" with the Bagpipe-Embellishments at that time, see https://musescore.org/en/node/83401

I believed, this problem were solved in MuseScore 3. The following "bagpipe-problem" is not new, but should have existed for some time, but is still unsolved

The data files of the "Bagpipe Music Writer" are according to the manual compatible with MuseScore, the manual said; MuseScore can import them, see original quote from the online manual

Bagpipe Music Writer (*.bww) (import only)
BWW files are created by the niche score writer, Bagpipe Music Writer.

(https://musescore.org/en/handbook/file-formats#bagpipe-music-writer)

How to get information on the Internet when searching for "Bagpipe Music Writer
(https://robertmacneilmusicworks.com/home/ https://robertmacneilmusicworks.com/books-in-bmw/ https://robertmacneilmusicworks.com/product-features/)
the editor of the Musescore manual or the programmer has sat on false information. The Bagpipe Music Writer file format is marked with the suffix ".BMW" (not: .BWW)

This error has consequences. On the search for bagpipe melodies in Public Domain) I found
http://www.mohr.nu/Peter/tunes/tunes.html ' Source for some Bagpipe-Music

offers: Download a zip with the all the tunes! (app. 1689 tunes / 671 KB)

Orginal-Quote:
The BMW-Tunes Page
The tunes listed here on this page can be printed, played and viewed on a PC with a program called "Bagpipe
Music Writer" which can be obtained from Robert MacNeills Musicworks

I have downloaded and unzipped this ZIP file. Result: I now have 1689 Jigs, Reels, Airs, Marches and Strathsprays in the format ".BMW" as files on the harddisk - and Musescore can't read any of them! The attempt ends always here (=> Type unknown):

                                             Musescore: Loading error

(GFX MISSING)

Now, as a user with 40 years of experience since 1980 (the first own: C=64 was 1983) I am not easily impressed. I'll just try to change the file suffix from correct to wrong (on a copy of the file, Robert Burns' "Auld Lang Syne", well known!)

(GFX MISSING: 2)

You can ignore this warning of the OS (only a copy, no original).
The file then appears as

in the directory. And as big surprise: The error is not only in the manual, but also inside the source code of Musescore 3, because Musescore can load and play the file now.

(GFX MISSING: 2)
You might ask: If the FarrierPete has already found the WorkAround - what more does he want?
Yes, MS 3 loads and plays that. BUT: the bug from 2015 that occurred with the predecessor MS 2.02 - that's back. Musescore can't get the timing of the "Embellishments" (= Acciacatura) right, loses beat and tempo and stumbles through the score.

Greetz to all

FarrierPete

PS: The same notice is - complete with missing graphics - added in .ODT format as upload

Attachment Size
David 2.odt 229.98 KB

Comments

• May 13, 2020 - 07:26

There are no graphics in that .odt. And you can attach graphics directly here, and even inline them.

Reg. bagpipe embelishment playback see https://musescore.org/en/node/277609 and the fix for it in https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/4105, merged into 3.5

Reg. the extension .bww vs .bmw: are you really 100% sure about that? I find it difficult to believe that this bug (if it is one) went unnoticed for so very long (MuseScore 1.x had .bww import already), also in the code all the functions dealing with Bagpipe Music Writer have a bww suffix.
Or is .bmw maybe a new and additional extension for those files, (and one MuseScore just doesn't know yet)?

Ah, actually it is the other way round, see https://robertmacneilmusicworks.com/product-features/ shows:

  • Bagpipe Music Writer Gold supports the earlier DOS format BMW files. BMW Gold will open a BMW file and convert it to the new BWW format, which can then be saved.

And https://robertmacneilmusicworks.com/faq/ says:

  • Will Bagpipe Music Writer Gold support tunes written with the old DOS version?
    Yes, BMW Gold will handle your old BMW files with absolutely no problem. It will open a BMW file and convert it to the new format, which you then save as a BWW file. You can print your music document directly from BMW Gold, and/or BWW files can be exported as BMP, PCX, or midi files.BMW Gold does have different codes than the earlier BMW format for a few items, such as ties and triplets. Although the old codes for these items still work, you should “hand convert” them to the new codes after the automatic conversion has been completed; the result is a better looking output.BMW Gold will not convert BWW files to the old BMW format, but then why would you?

See https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/6083

Reply

• May 13, 2020 - 12:51

Danke für die Antwort, Jojo. Doch, ich bin mir sicher. Die MS-Installation auf meinem WIN 10-Rechner hat die OS: Windows 10 (10.0), Arch.: x86_64, MuseScore version (64-bit): 3.4.2.9788, revision: 148e43f. Und die führt mit den Files aus dem Internet GENAU DAS vor, was die Screenshots in meiner .ODT-Datrei zeigen sollten. Habe deshalb dasselbe File nochmals gesendet, nun im .PDF-Format und mit Grafik drin (überprüft!)

Klar und deutlich gesagt, Jojo: Heißt das zu ladende File "xyz.BMW". wird es nicht erkannt und nicht geladen. Benenne ich es um in "xyz.BWW" (falsch), so wird es erkannt, geladen und abgespielt. - aber die Vorschlagsnoten (Embellishments) bringen Takt und Rhythmus zum Stolpern.

Wir kennen uns nun bereits ein paar Jahre, Jojo, und Du wirst wissen, daß ich kein Troll bin und keine Fake-News verbreite.

mfG
FarrierPete

Reply

• May 13, 2020 - 13:03

No one claimes yopu to be trolling of spreading fake news, but such a blatant mistake of using the wrong extension since more than 10 years is just beyond credibility, and in fact this is not a bug:
BMW is the old Bagpipe Music Writer format from the DOS era, BWW the new format (since Windows, so quite a while already), see my investigation and evidence above. MuseScore so far only supports that 'new' format, so there is no bug, just a missing feature, and my PR tries to implement that.
Please test that (see below) and report back

And the emblishment issue should be fixed in MuseScore 3.5

Reply

• May 13, 2020 - 13:21

Hi, Jojo,
Sorry, but...
https://robertmacneilmusicworks.com/product-features/: Error 404 - Page Not Found
https://robertmacneilmusicworks.com/faq/: Error 404 - Page Not Found

WAS STEHT EIGENTLICH HINTER ".bww" ?
http://www.kornzauber.de/extension/bww: meint dazu .>>BWW ist eine Dateiendung, die von der Firma Statistics Netherlands für die Bedürfnisse ihrer Urhebersoftware erschaffen wurde. Dateien mit der Extension .BWW gehören der Kategorie Verschiedene Dateien an. Der volle Name dieser Art von Dateien ist Blaise. Dateien mit der Extension .BWW kann man auf verschiedene Art und Weise öffnen. Die einfachste Weise ist das Installieren der Produzentenapplikation.<<

Wüßte wirklich nicht, was das mit Dudelsackmusik zu tun haben soll... Ist das ganze "Übersetzungsproblem" ein Fall von "Künstlicher Intelligenz" - oder was?

FarrierPete

Reply

• May 13, 2020 - 16:22

Ist da was ist los mit Deinem Rechner, Jojo?

Du schriebst "There are no graphics in that .odt." Tut mir leid, aber das stimmt nicht. Wenn ich die dort angehängte Datei erneut herunter lade, so zeigt mir der "Libre Office Writer" aus dem Libre Office v. 6.3 Text UND Grafik an. (Hätte mich anders auch gewundert, aber so was könnte ja mit steigendem Alter vorkommen; deshalb erst einmal eine zweite Sendung als .PDF hochgeladen) Ich verwende kein Micro$oft-Office, auch nicht das MS-Office 365. (und das aus gutem Grund!)
mfG
FarrierPete

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• May 13, 2020 - 16:26

My Microsoft Word, from Office 2013, doesn't show any images from that .odt. Now it seems you accusing me of Fake news?
And as said multiple times now there is no need for that .odt or .pdf, as images (.png, .gif, .jpg) can get attached to articles here and even get inlined and then even show to those looking at it with just a browser, like on a mobile device.

Reply

• May 13, 2020 - 17:31

@ Jojo-Schmitz "Now it seems you accusing me of Fake news?"
.
Nein, nicht wirklich, Jojo. Ist nicht mein Stil. Ich rede (und schreibe), wie mir das Maul gewachsen ist und kümmere mich wenig um "politisch korrekt oder nicht?". Ich lasse mir die Sprache nicht von "intelektuellen Oberlehrern" erklären; bei mir heißt das immer noch einfach "Negerkuß", nicht etwa "Schaumkuß" oder gar "süße Leckerei mit Migrationshintergrund". Und wenn ich einen Bug sehe, dann nenne ich den einfach "einen Bug". That's all.

Kollegialen Gruß
FarrierPete

Reply

• May 13, 2020 - 21:43

Ehem.... Danke für das Angebot zur Mitarbeit. Bißchen wenig bis zuwenig Zeit für eine Test-Installation, Jojo. Ich schreibe derzeit an einem Buch (PDF) Musiktheorie-Basiswissen für meinen ältesten Sohn (Asperger-Syndrom), der nun mit 28 Jahren sich drei (!) gebrauchte Synthesizer zulegte - und in seiner gesamten Schulzeit hat ihm kein Pauker jemals eine Tonleiter, den Unterschied zwischen Dur und Moll oder wenigstens die Flötentöne beigebracht - von MIDI ganz zu schweigen ... B^/ Also NULL Grundlagenwissen, aber drei Synthies + Laptop spielen wollen. Notationskunde, Harmonielehre, Rhythmik, Instrumentenkunde, Kompositionskunde, Midi, Akkustik... alles das muß ich nachliefern, weil das deutsche Schulsystem nichts dazu gesagt hat. Zum Glück kann ich seinen Laptop mit Musescore als "Schultafel" und "Notenpapier" plus "Musiklehrbuch" einsetzen, sonst hätte ich noch z.B. das zweifelhafte Vergnügen, mit einem Linkshänder Notation von Hand mit Stift auf Papier zu üben.

Ferner habe ich noch ein selbst gesetztes Projekt in Arbeit, siehe https://musescore.org/en/node/82086. In der Gruppe "Renaissance Music" findest Du meine bisherige Arrangements dazu (erst ein klitzekleiner Anfang!)
Bevor ich also zuviel verspreche (und dann hinterher nichts kommt), halte ich lieber meinen Mund.

CU, Jojo
FarrierPete

Reply

• Dec 14, 2022 - 03:54

No offense FarrierPete, but as a Piper with 33 years of experience, who has used Bagpipe Music Writer Gold, as well as the controversial freeware version, the files have always been (.bww). I have used both versions to type up over 400 tunes over the years, many of which were tunes that I personally composed.

Needless to say when MS Vista came along I bailed on Windows and became a Mac user.

Currently (Dec 2022) my issue is that MS 3 cannot open any .bww files, which is odd because a few months ago I could, even though the actual results on the manuscript was not stellar. (My belief as to why this is so is mainly because of how pipers were scripting their tunes in BMW Gold.)

I am wondering if this is just a Ventura problem on my Mac.

The 1689 tune zip file… I don’t know what to say about this, except that it was a compilation of a multitude of BMW Gold users many of whom probably hadn’t a clue when it came to using this software… or their knowledge was limited. Hey I love free stuff as much as the next guy but I also am a firm believer that when you want something done perfectly right, you have to do it yourself.

Anyhow I am an actual Highland Piper and composer and so if you want to chat about these things, I am here from time to time. I use MuseScore exclusively and I find it works great. I don’t really need sound fonts or playback that much because the tunes are in my head, and I can play them to myself when I need to hear them.

SLAINTE! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Reply

• Dec 14, 2022 - 10:58

Hi Leon.

I had another try at it last night, using .BWW files that were on a USB key that I have been keeping, with a bunch of old pipe band music books.

Surprise surprise it worked and with a few tweaks I had a very nice looking score.

Files on my hard drive kept crashing Musescore. I will do further testing over the holidays!!

PS, this is what a REAL bagpipe score looks like folks. 😜

Attachment Size
32955BAC-6E74-40D0-8983-53B948123CA3.jpeg 357 KB

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