Editing Score Automatically Resets every time a note is added or changed
...and it jumps around so much that it makes working with the software pretty much impossible.
Is there a way to turn that feature off?
...and it jumps around so much that it makes working with the software pretty much impossible.
Is there a way to turn that feature off?
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In general, the cursor moves forward when you enter something, just as a word processor or just about any other program does. Occasionally the musical equivalent of "word wrap" means a measure moves to the next line - again, just like a word processor. So it shouldn't feel at all unusual. Perhaps there is a problem with your specific score that is causing this to seem more problematic than it should be. If you attach it and give us steps to reproduce the problem, we can take a look.
Meanwhile, you might find it useful to switch from Page to Continuous view using the control on the toolbar.
In reply to In general, the cursor moves by Marc Sabatella
Because the line was rhythmically repetitive, I had added a few measures of dummy notes ahead, and then started assigning note values from the beginning. The cursor movement you mention was being magnified through the whole line of dummy notes and nearly causing me convulsions. Try it yourself sometime if you want to be aggravated in a hurry (warning: may cause brain damage).
I think I have spared myself disaster by managing the dummy notes thing down to just one measure ahead.
Thank you for the speedy reply & good info.
Healthy scoring,
blah
In reply to Because the line was by blah deblah
Again, though, even with dummy notes there shouldn't be any more motion than a typical word processor. Actually things should be noticeably *better* if notes are presented - fewer cases of word wrap as you enter new notes. So something else must be going on with your particular score. Again, if you attach it we can help better.
I think I've attached it.
Anyway, I'm starting to get the hang of the software and so far it seems to be serving my purposes well.
An unrelate question arises:
1. I haven't even looked at importing scores, if that's even possible. But if I build an arrangement one instrument at a time, is it possible to paste in each one, or will they have to be entered manually, note-for-note?
Thanks again for the attention.
In reply to I think I've attached by blah deblah
I don't see anything obviously unusual about your score. Can you give us precise step-by-step instructions to reproduce the problem you are seeing?
As for importing scores, what program do you want to import them from? MuseScore supports import from the industry-standard MusicXML format, so if the program you are using supports that, you should be able to import that way. However, your question suggests you don't actually want import at all, and indeed are doing things backwards I'm afraid. MuseScore, like most notation programs, doesn't work by having you first enter a bunch of separate parts and then somehow combining them into a score. It works by first creating the score, and then it can automatically extract the parts. So what you should be doing is starting by creating the full score. You can still enter the music for each instrument one at a time from the prts you have, if that's all you have to work from. But entering everything into the same score ensures they all share the same structure and allows you to then extract all the parts in just a couple of clicks. They are all linked as well, so that if you make changes to the score it is automatically reflected in the parts and vice versa.
If you've already entered a bunch of individual parts, that work isn't lost, though. Once you create the full score, you can open your individual parts and copy/paste their content in the score. Then you can delete your parts - you will want to use the automatically generated ones in order to take advantage of the linking and other advantages of the automatic facility.
In reply to I don't see anything by Marc Sabatella
Marc,
If you don't know what he's talking about then you don't enter scores by hand. Anyone who ever entered more than a minimal score by hand has had their current measure jump off the screen. Sometimes it jumps back on the next note, sometimes it doesn't.
In reply to Marc, If you don't know what by mike320
I'm looking at his actual score and not understanding based on that. Of course I enter scores, and when you reach the end of a line or page it wraps, just as I originally said. It's an occasional nuisance when you reach the end of a line/page but it's perfectly normal, and works just like all other similar programs including word processors. And switching to continuous view is the solution if those cases bother you, as I said before.
But OP seemed to be describing something else - things literally jumping on every note input so as to make the program unusable. That's way more than normal word wrap. In extremely rare cases we *have* seem scores that have some sort of issue that causes this type of behavior, triggering bugs in the software that we've worked to eliminate one by one as people show us how to reproduce these specific problems. But this particular score doesn't appear to have any such issue.
In reply to Marc, If you don't know what by mike320
Can someone explain **exactly** a case where MuseScore moves the current measure out off screen and it shouldn't? MuseScore follows the blue note entry cursor. If there is a case where this cursor is not in the screen during note entry mode, then it's probably a bug... and the moron is happy to take a look at it...
In reply to Can someone explain by [DELETED] 5
To me it isn't a case of should / shouldn't, but it has been observed that when dealing with music of more than a single voice/staff, sometimes when you finish entering music for one measure in you might prefer to move to the next voice/staff rather than the next measure. So in these cases, you might not actually want the cursor to advance to the next measure. Of course that is exactly what it is does and normally everyone is OK with it, but in the cases where the next measure starts a new line/page, people *have* expressed frustration with this. Not that I would advocate any change to the default cursor behavior on this account though. Nor do I like the idea of the view not following the cursor.
In reply to Can someone explain by [DELETED] 5
Uploading a score to show an example of this is impossible. I don't necessarily have the same screen resolution that you do. I probably don't have the same zoom set on my score that you do either. Therefore, MS must realize that we have different displays. These 2 issues will make it impossible to tell exact steps to reproduce wild jumps during score entry. I don't have a video recorder set up to my monitor, so I can't upload a video of it. I don't have enough data to upload a video anyway. The problem happens in continuous view - constantly, such ridiculous jumps do not happen in a decently programmed word processor.
In a word processor, when you reach the last word on the line, if the word stays on the previous line the cursor stays there blinking at the end of the line. It will only move to the next line when you press the space bar. If the word moves to the next line, the cursor and word BOTH move to the next line and the screen is appropriately redrawn.
Having said that, the word processor analogy is not entirely the same. Word processing documents are laid out in lines, you reach the end of the line, then the auto line feed to the next line makes sense as described above. That linear action makes the writing of a word processor much easier. Music notation is not normally done a single measure at a time, but rather at least a few (2, 20 , however many you like) measures from one instrument then back to about the same spot and a few measures from another instrument.
If you want to experience this then here's my suggestion. Find a score from IMSLP that has at least 10 instruments (this will likely give you various measure lengths) on it and enter the score using the computer keyboard only, one music page at a time. This makes it very convenient to have the PDF open to full screen and MuseScore filling up half the screen on top of it so you can see the current line in both programs (on my windows system, moving the mouse over the PDF and spinning the wheel scrolls the PDF). Some scores allow me to keep MS in the same spot. Scores with 2 pages of music (side by side) on one PDF page require me to move MS to the bottom of the screen to see the first few instruments and up to the top to see the last few. So pick a score with one page of music per PDF page. Enter the score in continuous view. It doesn't matter if the notes play when you enter them. While entering the score you will need to scroll up, down, left and right to see the next measure in MS you want to enter. Such as: you did a page of Bassoon and now you are doing the horns, you will probably need to scroll down and left so you can click the next spot to put a note. This is totally expected. One thing about entering into MS, set the zoom so 2 or 3 filled in lines of music with several 16th notes takes up less than 1/2 of the screen. You should always be able to see 2 full measures plus some if you scroll the current measure to the left of the screen. This is a comfortable zoom for me to be able to see space between staffs so I can usually enter and move staff text and dynamics as needed. While entering the score, the staff and system text should have no effect on this, so you can probably ignore it if you like. I'm not sure if dynamics affect this, but (de)crescendo lines might. While in continuous view I do not used spacers except temporarily to be able to grab a dynamic with a note on top of it. I will delete it as soon as the score is readable again. I'm trying to tell you anything that I do that might cause the wild jumps.
In my opinion the last note entered should never leave the screen (unless I scroll), just like the description of the word processor above. If it is the last note of the measure it should stay on the screen along with the cursor. This allows the user to see the last note he entered. Some of us can't tell simply by listening that the note entered was really an F rather than a G (which use the same finger on a qwerty keyboard). When my score gets huge I turn off the playback because it plays the note too long while its thinking about what I just did. And if it unexpectedly jumps to the next measure because I accidentally pressed the 6 for a 1/2 note rather than 5 for a 1/4 note and the last 2 beats got filled, backspace doesn't move the screen back to where it was before I entered the note I deleted with it. One more missing word processor action, if I do scroll away from the cursor and start entering notes, the screen does not jump back to the cursor. The screen just sits there while I type. A decent word processor would redraw the screen with the cursor on it. Why would I scroll? Perhaps I don't remember making the note on the same beat for the flute an F# and now the violin is playing in unison and it needs an F#, so I scroll up to the flute, see it is fine and now I have to scroll back down past 25 other instruments to see the violin again. The cursor is still sitting there waiting for the next note, but I won't see anything until I scroll back to it. In a word processor I use the knowledge that this will happen to put the cursor back on my screen. Hit a random key and backspace so I can see where I was. It would be nice to be able to do this in MS as well.
It should not be that difficult to make an awareness check for the display. What was the last note entered? It's in a list somewhere so undo can get rid of it. Where is the cursor? The program already knows that. Are we in continuous view? If so, they should both be visible and next to each other until the user either clicks somewhere else or scrolls to a new location. If he selects undo, the action should take place and the screen moved to that point as needed with the option of manually doing the same thing you just undid. This puts the cursor and display exactly where it was before the undid action was performed. If he scrolls, the cursor is still in the same spot so if he changes the score (new note, rest, tuplet, accidental...) the display should return to that spot. All of these are normal word processing expectations. If page view is selected and the last note of the last measure on the page is entered, the programmer will have to make a decision if the last note will show up with the cursor highlighting the end of measure barline, or if the scroll to the next page will happen. I prefer the barline being highlighted, but would understand if the next note location were chosen. The reason for the barline being highlighted is the same as having the last note entered displayed with the cursor. This is more consistent with what happen in a word processor as well. MS should be aware it did this and place the next note entered into the next measure with the appropriate redraw of the screen.
What I believe happens in the wild jumps is that the measure is recalculated and the display is redrawn based upon the size of the new measure. The program goes through its list of items to check for and if certain things are in the measure the score is drawn one way, if it is not in the measure it is drawn a different way, but the physical lengths of the measures are not necessarily different. I have attached a score of mine that shows something similar.
The following are instructions to see what I mean. Go to measure 262 and select the 2 1/16th notes in the flute (click and shift click) with staccato (the Eb and D). Toggle the staccato off (shift-s) and see what happens to the pagination. Toggle them back on and see what happens to the pagination. Why does it do this? I stated my theory above. I strongly suspect that this is related to the wild jumps that happen while entering notes into a score even though one is in continuous view and the other is page view.
With a little effort on the part of a programming contributor this issue should be able to be tracked down. I just had another thought about the cursor leaving the screen. While entering the above suggested score, at some point after a few measures have scrolled normally off the left side of the screen and the cursor is in the first visible measure, hit the backspace key a few times until the blue cursor disappears from the screen to the left. There is one of your bugs, but not necessarily the cause of the wild jump.
Hopefully this all makes sense. If there is something unclear, feel free to ask. I want this fixed.
In reply to Uploading a score to show an by mike320
Thanks for the detailed description. Sounds like you are talking about something entirely different though. You are talking not about measures moving from system to system but about how the screen view shifts in continuous view. I have no doubt you are right that it would be possible to tweak the screen view positioning to keep the last not entered j. View where possible. This has nothing to do with the OP's issue though - he's in Page view, and his problem is measures moving from one system to the next. He's not even talking about note entry per se - he's talking about *edits* in the middle of a line.
In reply to Thanks for the detailed by Marc Sabatella
He can't be talking about notes jumping to another system his score only has one. In his original post it sounded like he's describing exactly what I'm talking about.
Now, looking at his pictures, it's obvious he's talking about the same problem I showed in my score. He just had a smaller score to use as an example. On my score, zoom out so you can see the entire system of music (with measure 262) and it's more obvious what is going on. I worked on my previous post for about 4 hours on and off, so he posted those pictures while I wasn't looking. You can also put my score into your debugger and figure out what it's actually doing when it moves all of those measures to another line. Until this is tested in 3.0, which I won't do, we don't know what making such changes will have. I hope it will improve this behavior. But, we're still going to use 2.x for a while longer, and that is where the issue is.
In reply to He can't be talking about by mike320
Are we looking at the same pictures? The ones I am looking at clearly show *three* systems, and measure three migrating from the first system to the second as a result of the edit. In Page view. So not related at all to what you are talking about. Totally different behavior handled by totally different sections of code with totally different symptoms and steps to reproduce. Your example is indeed dependent on screen resolution and window size and magnification etc. His is not - his is word wrap, plain and simple.
Again, in Continuous view, the "word wrap" doesn't come into play at all - it simply doesn't happen, because there is only a single system. So what you are talking about is completely different. not word wrap, but rather the *view* shifting. And you are absolutely correct that in most cases it should be possible to keep the previous note in view when shifting. So that's worth posting as a formal feature request in the Issue tracker.
In reply to Are we looking at the same by Marc Sabatella
I'm looking at "word wrap test screenshot.jpg" which are pictures from "word wrap.mscz" which has a single instrument in it. I noticed the different word wraps as I changed notes also. I changed the F# to G-flat. Changing the note value without changing the width of a note makes the word wrap recalculate differently. This is the same effect as the score I uploaded, mine just moves several measures rather than one. Probably because it recalculates 262 measures rather than 4.
When you put the single system (or more) into page view, you have to worry about word wrap. The number of measures on a line changes constantly. As you enter or change notes the number of measures on a line sometimes changes with every change. Often these changes make no sense, such as in the example demonstrated by the OP and the score I uploaded. Changing staccato should not cause the number of measures on a line to change.
Perhaps the word system is the problem. There is one instrument in the score. There are 3 lines of music on the score. Word wrap is the problem.
As far as the the feature request is concerned, was one telling me to do what I'm doing and one from you that basically tells me that there is no issue - from you.
https://musescore.org/en/node/142396
In reply to I'm looking at "word wrap by mike320
Right - that's the picture I mean. Page View, three systems, a measure moving from the first system to the second as a result of the edit. The screen view didn't even move at all - notice it still has the title frame at top.
Meaning, the issue in that example has nothing whatsoever to do with screen resolution or window size. The measure itself moves - not just on screen, but on the printed page as well. Yes, for certain screen resolutions and window sizes that might *also* result in the screen view shifting, but that's a mere side effect of the fact that the measure physically moved on the page from one system to the next.
What you are talking about is, again, completely unrelated. No measure changes its physical location on the page. It is simply a matter of how the screen positions itself, and it is completely specific to Continuous view.
The thread you linked to is not a formal feature request in the issue tracker - it is a forum thread. And my response pointing out that the previous and next note are not necessarily adjacent is talking about about *page* view, not *continuous*, as I explain in that post. For page view, it is not always possible to keep both notes in view at once. In continuous view, it is. That's why I suggested you file a formal feature request for that - specifically for continuous view. Because I agree with you it would be an improvement and it is is totally doable.
In reply to I don't see anything by Marc Sabatella
I've created a dummy score that illustrates what I was describing. In Measure 2, there is a 16th A that I have marked w/a Fermata. If you change the pitch of that note to A# with your arrow key, you'll see what I'm talking about.
And if you do it enough times, while reading from an hand-written transcription, you'll have to take a nap with an ice pack on your head.
The basic setup is as follows:
1. iMac.
2. Window full-sized.
3. 170% zoom.
4. Palettes window open on left side, Inspector open on right.
5. See screenshot file attached.
Well, yes, this exactly the normal case I was talking about. Your third measure is right on the edge of either fitting on the line or not, and adding an accidental puts it over the edge. This is normal "word wrap" in action and it's a good thing - you don't want to be forced to manually add and remove your own line breaks all the time any more than you would in a word processor.
As we've said, if you do this sort of editing (adding things in the middle of already-full lines) and run into this case often enough to find it distracting, simply switch to Continuous view - that's exactly what it is for. Then there is no word wrap because it is all one long line. You could also add line breaks to force the looser spacing while editing (eg, every two bars, using Edit / Tools Add/Remove Line Breaks) if you prefer to stay in Page view. The line breaks will similarly prevent word wrap from occurring.
In normal use, though, you shouldn't realistically find there are many lines of music so "on the edge" that a single accidental is the difference between a measure fitting or not. So while on this line of music specifically you'll see the word wrap going back and forth on practically every edit if you don't choose to employ one of the simple solutions given here, it should still only happen on a small handful of lines of music overall. Most lines will have lots of extra room already, so there would need to be many changes before the number of measures that fits would ever change. I personally tend to do most of my work in Page view when dealing with music for a single instrumen't (as opposed to ensemnle scores, where I often prefer Continuous view for other reasons). But the choice is yours.
In reply to Well, yes, this exactly the by Marc Sabatella
I'm dealing with it. For now it's not an issue.
In a completely unrelated vein, is there (or could there be) any kind of pop-up scratchpad kind of thing to store little ideas while working on the score?
Not sure if such a thing fits in organically with the big picture of this product.
I can just tab over to another score for that, but the idea just, uh, popped up...
In reply to I'm dealing with it. For now by blah deblah
There has indeed been talk of a scratch pad. Actually considerably more than just what you are describing - the ideas center around a new mode of note input where MuseScore doesn't make any effort to honor the time signature and try to keep barlines and beats in their proper place but simply lets you moves notes and rests around. It's a cool idea but big project, so far no one has volunteered to work on anything like that.
Meanwhile, a separate score tab is how I do it too :-)