how do I get into edit mode?
how do I get into edit mode? double clicking somewhere frequently does not work. It seems like often the program simply does not respond to commands. Especially if I keep trying. Frustrated again....
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See handbook: Edit Mode
In reply to See handbook by Jojo-Schmitz
Marc's explanation shows that going in and out of edit mode is overly complicated.
In reply to Marc's explanation shows that by eameece
What is complicateion about double click to get in and Ecs to get out?
In reply to What is complicateion about by Jojo-Schmitz
Read all the different conditions Marc laid out. Simple and not cumbersome would be to double click anywhere in the score to enter edit mode, and get out of it by clicking N for note entry mode (or escape).
In reply to Read all the different by eameece
It's not complicated in any way that could realistically be avoided. It's basic common sense - edit mode only works on *specific objcects*, so of course you can't click just anywhere: you have to click on the specific object you want to edit. And if it happens to be obscured by another object, then of course you will have to take an extra step of some sort to get at the obscured object. As for N automatically leaving edit mode, that wouldn't work, because you might need to actually use the N key while in edit mode (or were you thinking of only typing text that doesn't use this letter)?
Rather than complain about how hard everything is, it really would be to your advantage to simlly learn how it works. It gets tiresome responding to questions that are worded as complainta all the time.
If you double click directly on an onject that supports Edit Mode, it spworks, unless you are *already* in edit mode on some other object. So if you double click an object that supports Edit Mode and aren't finding you can edit it, try hitting Esc first to exit Edit Mode from whatever object you were previously editing, then double click again.
Sometimes it is difficult to double click on an specific object if it is small and overlapped by another object - you will usually end up htting the other object. Zooming in on the score usually helps expose the small overlapped onject better to make it easier to select. In the few cases where that doesn't help - two sumbols directly on top of each other so you just can't get at the bottom one - you can first move the top symbol out of the way (also via edit mode), then do your edit to the bottom symbol, then select the top object and press Ctrl-R to automatically reset it to its proper position.
Note that as the manual says, not all object types support edit mode.
It is mind-blowing that the term "edit mode" is used for only some kinds of editing and not others. If I want to set a space invisible for a second voice, for example, that's not "editing." And so on. It is very strange. I guess that's why often I have gone into "edit mode" and not been able to edit (change a beam is another example). And yet I have to go OUT of "note entry mode" to do most of those kinds of things.
In reply to It is mind-blowing that the by eameece
Edit mode is for things that require you to manually and interactively make adjustments by hand until they "look" right. That basically means two things: manually fine tuning the position of objects (pressing cursor keys to nudge them left/right or up/down), or manually fine tuning the shape of them (dragging or nudging the handles of a slur, for instance). Basic property settings like marking something invivislbe or breaking a beam can be accomplished much more easily with a simple command - why force users to go to the trouble of entering a special interactive edit mode just to mark something invisible or break a beam? So even though I had nothng to do with the design of this program, I certainly appreciate that an effort was made to make the simple things simple and *not* require me to enter a special interactive editing mode. Let edit mode be for the stuff that requires interactive/manual fiddling; let simole things be accomplished simply.
Again, this is neither complex to understand nor difficult to use. It just takes a moment to discover how things work, which is unavoidable in any program that can do as many things as MuseScore. So please do not hesitate to ask questions to help you in your learning process - as with any new skill, you will find your frustration lessens as you gain familiarity. And then, when you have enough experience and perspective to feel comfortable doing so, perhaps you would like to volunteer to help with documentation.
In reply to Edit mode is for things that by Marc Sabatella
It IS complex and difficult to understand. It is counter-intuitive. In any other program or forum like this, edit means access to the ability to change something you wrote. That's all it means. You have note entry mode, edit mode, and neither (which I don't know the name of) in which you actually do most if not all of your editing. This program is difficult and inconsistent, and so it is better to simplify the terms where possible.
I added a few things to the online handbook (under beam for example); maybe someone will edit them so they are less clumsily written, since I am not familiar with all the terms and codes.
In reply to It IS complex and difficult by eameece
Just because the name of the mode doesn't match your expectation of what it should be called doesn't make it complex or diffucult to understand. The concept is quite simple - note entry mode is for entering notes, edit mode is for manual / interactive fine tuning of position and shape, and all else is done in the normal mode. It is only your unfamiliarity with things that makes them *seem* difficult at first. Have patience, read the documentation, politely ask questions, and this will pass.
Sounds like you probably have little or no experience with other notation software either or you'd realize that the basic concepts are quite similar in all of them and that in many ways, MuseScore is the easiest to use of the major programs in this genre.
Btw, you edit to the beam entry doesn't really make sense there, sicne it has nothing to do with beams. You are giving instructions for flippings *stems*, not changing anything about the beam.
In reply to Just because the name of the by Marc Sabatella
That edit to the Beam page may not be strictly needed, but it doesn't harm either, does it?
In reply to That edit to the Beam page by Jojo-Schmitz
It would be better it showed a graphic, but better still to my thinking would be a simple link to the proper location. My impression is that they like to keep the documentation relatively lean, since it needs to be translated into dozens of languages. So if it's possible to make the point without needing to have two differently worded ways of saying the same thing, so much the better. But it is also my understanding that the handbook is going to be largely redone for 2.0 anyhow.
In reply to It would be better it showed by Marc Sabatella
yes, generating a image for that button is on my ToDo list :-). Linking to the localtion is done too, under the "See also" heading.
But that page doesn't have an image for that button either.
In reply to yes, generating a image for by Jojo-Schmitz
The problem with "see also" is that it doesn't make clear why you might want to go there, nor does it make clear where on the linked page you need to go (it's a single sentence buried half way down the page).
I would suggest that what is really needed is a new page "Stems" that discusses flipping stems, mirroring note heads, lengthening/shortening stems, and making notes stemless. Then the beam page could say something like "For information on moving the beam closer or further from the noteheads or for changing which side of the notes it appears on, see Stems."
In reply to The problem with "see also" by Marc Sabatella
"half way down the page" is nor what it really is, it is just 2 lines down.
Creating a new 'stems' page sound good, but creates far more trouble for the translator then the current short hint.
In reply to "half way down the page" is by Jojo-Schmitz
Maybe you are talking about a different link than I am? The only place I am aware of where Stem flipping is currently discussed is pn the Note Entry page, but it is hardly two lines down. On my browser, it is on the fourth page, in the middle of Step Four! Under the subheading "Other useful editing keyboard shortcuts" (second to last on the list, after W and W which I have never used). So if a person going to the Beam page wants to find out about stem flipping, they need to first guess that the "see also" entry for Note Entry will contain that information, then they have to scan through four screenfuls of information in order to find that one sentence buried on the page.
Not sure what you are saying would cause trouble for the translator. Obviously, adding a new page means a lot of text, but the problem with the short hint on the Beams page is that it is completely the wrong page for the info, plus there is the other info on how to lengthen/shorten stems, how to mark them invisible, etc. If those hiints don't exist already, they will need to be written at some point, and if they do, why not just collect them into one logical place? In any case, I'm not saying we should avoid documenting things at all in order to get out of translating completely. I am saying we should maybe avoid documenting things multiple times in order to reduce the amount of translation work needed to get the job done (and to otherwise simplify maintenance).
In reply to Maybe you are talking about a by Marc Sabatella
"Maybe you are talking about a different link than I am?"
Apparently so, I'm talking about beam and it's link to note entry
Might better be a link into the page, to the spot where the X is mentioned?
In reply to "Maybe you are talking about by Jojo-Schmitz
Regarding the lonkin the handbook: I wasn't talking about where the link occurs within the Beam page; I was talking about where the relevant information is on the Note Entry page once you follow the link. Yes, linking to the specific location where it talks about the X shortcut would be an improvement - but only if that's the only relevant information on the Note Entry page worthy of being linked to, and I am not sure that is the case. Seems the info on how to create eighth notes in the first place is just as useful. The problem is that if you are reading the Beam page, nothing about text that says to "see also Note Entry" tells you why you might be interested in looking there - it doesn't say what type of information you might find there. Nor should it, probably, since Note Entry is a very general page. But if there a Stems page and a link to it, it would be more self-evident why you ,ight want to follow that link from Beams, and the moment you followed the link, you'd be seeing relevant information.
Oh, add "beam angle" to the list of things that could be documented there, although in this case, it's really about both beams and stems.
In reply to Regarding the lonkin the by Marc Sabatella
OK, yes, a handbook page about Stems seems useful.
It just won't be me writing it. I'm much better at trying to improve existing stuff than creating new stuff ;-)
I've just added a sentence about beam angles to the Beam page, what do you think?
It too has some duplication though, as it refers to Edit Mode .
In reply to OK, yes, a handbook page by Jojo-Schmitz
Looks good. Typo on the word "length".
Another reason not to be creating new pages right now - I keep hearing the manual is likely to be largely rewritten for 2.0. So figure any major work might as well wait until them.
In reply to Looks good. Typo on the word by Marc Sabatella
typo corrected, added direct link to edit mode
Now to the German translation...
In reply to The problem with "see also" by Marc Sabatella
"I would suggest that what is really needed is a new page "Stems" ....Then the beam page could say something like "For information on moving the beam closer or further from the noteheads or for changing which side of the notes it appears on, see Stems.""
That would be good.
In reply to Just because the name of the by Marc Sabatella
In this instance I view the duplication as beneficial.
In reply to Just because the name of the by Marc Sabatella
"Just because the name of the mode doesn't match your expectation of what it should be called doesn't make it complex or difficult to understand."
Ha ha. That is the definition of being difficult to understand. I guess another word would be to make it user friendly.
Maybe it's because I'm unfamiliar, but I don't understand the need for normal AND edit mode. "Edit" means just what it means on this forum, that I am using now. Programs that are like other programs, are easier to use and understand.
I used notation software years ago, but gave up because it took too long. The less time it takes, the better and more useful such programs are. This one is definitely better, and I'm learning. I'm sorry, it has been frustrating and slow too. At this point, I don't know how much I want to use it, after this piece I'm doing that I've committed myself to. I don't see how I could use it to compose or transcribe directly; only translate written notation I already make, and for shorter pieces.
Did you write the program Marc?
Beams have nothing to do with stems? I think they go together! From the point of view of someone trying to understand how to flip a beam from below to above, it could be very useful, especially since "stems" have no place in the index, and someone might forget the distinction. The purpose of the help handbook is to help people understand so they can use the software. It does not need to be arcane.
Thanks to the person who pointed out the use of X to flip.
In reply to "Just because the name of the by eameece
First, no, I didn't write the program. I am just someone who very much appreciates how logical and efficient it is once you understand how it works, and oppose suggestions that might seem simpler at first but actually make things take more work, like, requiring the use of edit mode to accomplsih things that currently are accomplished more directly.
As for "the definition of being difficult to understand", no, that has nothing to do with what a feature is called. Difficult to understand means that one cannot explain it in one sentence and learn in amtter of seconds - it has nothing to do with what the featured is called. But fwiw, the use of the term Edit Mode as in MuseScore is not dissimilar to how it used in other programs, especially desktopublishing programs. Simile settings like marking marking an object invisible don't require edit mode, but interactive change to the dimensions or position do. It's really that unususal a distnction to make.
Beams have *something* to do with stems, obviously, but my point is, the act of flipping a stem has nothing to do with beams. Considier, the stem on an eighth note can be flipped whether it happens to be beamed or not. And we can flip stems on quarter and half nites that are never beamed. In those case, is clearly not something about the beam we are changing, since there isn't even a beam to change. So there is just no way one can argue than the main description of how to flip a stem belongs under Beams, since many of the notes that might need flipping won't even have beams. That is why I say at most, a pointer of where else to find the information makes sense.
As for why there needs to be separate modes for note entry versus other tasks, I'm sure it would be possible to design a program that didn't have this distinction. But there are many advantages to having them be separate. One is that in note entry mode, it is nice to be able to click on the staff to add a note, but it would be disastrous if *every* click added a note, since clicking can be useful for so many others purposes (selection, adding markings to notes, etc). Sometimes you are just not wanting to add notes, but rather to just maniuplate what you have, and it would be majorly difficult if there were no way to tell a program you are not interested in adding notes and to therefore not interpret every click or keystroke as a command to add note. And that is probably why every other notation program I have ever seen has this same distinction.
In reply to First, no, I didn't write the by Marc Sabatella
People need help to understand this program. Confusing terms like "edit mode" should be changed. Your arguments are not helpful and are condescending. Be more interested in how you can make the program easier to understand. That is what a "help" menu is supposed to be, which is how we access this handbook and forum. Be less defensive of what is already established.
BTW it would be better if there were a good search box for the handbook, if the index is going to be as inadequate as it is.
Hi there, just an idea:
While moving around the score, (horizontally walking from note to note with the keyboard arrows, or anything like that) I often found that I accidentally entered 'Edit Mode' I was never sure why or how, I only saw the note being displaced tiny steps
After months with this constant nagging today I decided to research about it and now I understand it comes from accidental double clicking, or just a light (wrong) contact with the laptop's touchpad that moves the mouse.
Now that I understand what is "Edit Mode" I can also see that the warnings were always there: Like a very tiny message in the botom right of my screen (Status Bar) and also that all notes in the 'Note Entry Toolbar' went gray.
Okay, problem solved, you can tell me I was an idiot who luckily found enlightment because one day I was finally bothered enough. But I think, how many more users deal with this?
My idea is to make it all more intuitive. There are warnings but a bit tiny and away from the action... away from my attention focus... away from my eyballs.
So... What about a color change? What if the note itself being edited goes gray? (instead of all the notes in the Note Entry Toolbar?) What if entering 'Note Entry' via double click was a tickbox in the preferences? or if it apeared in the list of keboard shortcuts (I know, keyboard) so I could delete or replace it for something else?
Just "alt + shift + E" is excellent for me.
Thanks a lot for reading all this. Thanks for this awesome free software. Best regards.