Ties and augmentation dots
I'm not sure if the positioning of ties and/or augmentation dots is correct, so I post here for deliberation - maybe reports, or indeed fixes will come of it.
1. Open attached score (produced in 1.2 - ties manually flipped to match LilyPond).
Result/Discussion: Compare MuseScore (PDF produced in 2.0 Nightly Build) and LilyPond:
1. In MuseScore, the ties collide with the augmentation dots - flipping the ties of the bottom three notes will also cause a collision.
2. In LilyPond, the spacing between the double dots is wider.
3. In MuseScore, the dots of the final chord are under the flag. Are dot positioning rules intended for notes without flags (e.g. crotchets or higher) being applied here? I think I brought this up before here (slightly different perhaps, but this could be relevant: #15434: Incorrect positioning of augmentation dots).
4. In LilyPond, the ties of the lowest and highest notes is higher and goes above the note.
5. In LilyPond, some ties (second and third down from the top) collide with the augmentation dots.
Using MuseScore 2.0 Nightly Build (83da8e8) - Mac 10.7.5.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Ties and augmentation dots.mscz | 1.63 KB |
| Ties and augmentation dots (MuseScore).pdf | 24.54 KB |
| Ties and augmentation dots (LilyPond).pdf | 37.93 KB |
Comments
The first rule: ties should never collide or obscure augmentation dots (it looks like even Lilypond fails in your example).
Depending on which style guide you follow, ties can start in two places: either the tie starts even with the notehead or it starts after the augmentation dot. See attached for a visual explanation created using MuseScore 1.2 (please note that the explanations are not 100 percent accurate when opened in the latest nightly builds)
Thank you very much David.
I think that addresses of points 1, 4 and 5. What do you think about 2 and 3?
In reply to Thank you very much David. I by chen lung
Regarding 2., it's a style setting in Style -> General -> Notes -> dot dot distance. The default can be changed if we can have a consensus or find an authoritative source.
In reply to Regarding 2., it's a style by [DELETED] 5
In general the dots should be equally spaced. Specifically, the distance between the notehead and the first augmentation dot should be equal to the distance between the first and second augmentation dots. Of course dots after notes with flags may shift the set of dots to the right.
In Behind Bars Elaine Gould recommends half a space between dots. Gould measures from the edge of the dot while MuseScore seems to measure from the center of the dot. The following measurements look about right to me.
Note dot distance: 45 sp
Dot dot distance: 80 sp
In reply to Thank you very much David. I by chen lung
Alfred recommends moving the dots after the flag (never within the flag). Faber (Elaine Gould) says both moving the dots to the right or lengthening the stem to avoid the collision are acceptable options.
In reply to Dots for flagged notes by David Bolton
Are the remarks, and default values valid in the case of double dots only ?
Also see this: #13702: Incorrect tie positioning