Notastion play back
Hi
I am composing Brass Band music and when I play the parts back the pitch of the different instruments is incorrect.
Bb & Eb instruments for example.
The notation is correct but when playing it back they all clash as incorrect pitch
Help please
Chris
Comments
First, check "The Concert Pitch button"
http://musescore.org/en/handbook/transposition
In reply to Welcome by Shoichi
did that it change all the key signatures and playback was the same
In reply to did that it change all the by brassbands
looks at
http://musescore.org/en/node/23510
(and http://musescore.org/en/handbook/how-ask-support-or-file-reports)
It always helps to attach the score you are having problems with.
I am guessing the problem is you didn't pay attention to the Concert Pitch button state while you were entering the ntoes. That is, you entered the notes at concert pitch while the concert pitch button was *off*, or you entered them at written pitch while the concert pitch button was *on*. Either way, to correct this, you will have to manually transpose the parts - select everything on a Bb staff (click first note, shift+ctrl+end), Notes / Transpose, figure out what interval you need to correct the error.
In reply to It always helps to attach the by Marc Sabatella
thanks, this could be the problem. Thanks for the options looks like I will have to put up with it as it is a brass band score over 25 parts and 45 pages long now. it looks right but sounds wrong.
Post the score. It might be as simple as transposing a few instruments and changing the keys.
In reply to Post the score. It might be by underquark
have a look its not finnished yet tho work in progress!
Thanks
In reply to have a look its not finnished by brassbands
Yes, it appears you entered the music at the wrong pitches, but without knowing what it's *supposed* to look or sound like, it's hard to say exactly how to fix. Is this your own arrangement? If so, then presumably you know what the pitches should be. With Concert Pitch turned *on*, everything should be a concert pitch (naturally). Meaning, all noes displayed as they sound, all key signatures the same. I see different key signatures eith concert pitch on, so I know something is wrong. But I don't understand exactly what. The soprano cornet appears to be in a different key than the rest of the cornets? Trombone in same key as cornets? I guess this the British brass band tradition, but I am not familair with it enough to say what I *should* be seeing. I'd suggest you go through staff by staff, with concert pitch *on*, ask yourself if what you are seeing is the correct *sounding* pitch, and if not, do as I suggested above - select the entire contents of the staff, notes/transpose, and make the appropriate correction. Hopefully it's as simple as choosing the appropriate key - all staves, again, should show the same key signature in concert pitch.
In reply to Yes, it appears you entered by Marc Sabatella
Thanks it is my arrangement, I know what I write in for different instruments and it is correct however play back is mot. I will play about a bit with it.
In reply to Thanks it is my arrangement, by brassbands
I think perhaps you are not quite understanding me. Playback *is* correct given how you entered the music - it matches what is being displayed perfectly. For instance, the first chord appears to contain, bottom to top, A just barely below middle C (bass trombone), B (Eb bass), D (just above middle C), E (euphonium and BBb bass), and on top of that G, B, D, E, F#, G in various instruments. And that's exactly what you hear when you press Play.
Furthermore, all the low brass instruments are playing notes *way* above their ranges (eg, baritone playing an F an octave and a half above middle C). MuseScore would have flagged these as unplayable for you, but it appears the playable range information has been compromised - all of the staves report 0-127 as the playable range.
So it's pretty clear to me that the notes are *not* correct. As I said, I think you probably entered notes at *written* pitch while concert pitch was turned on. You will have to transpose the staves to their correct *sounding* pitch. Either that or turn concert pitch *off* and transpose to correct *written* pitch
In reply to I think perhaps you are not by Marc Sabatella
The low brass are playing within range I have written in manuscript for years and no this instrumentation very well.
I am just going to keep writing it and not even bother to play until its completed then Print it as I see it and get my band to play it.
Thanks anyway for your help
In reply to The low brass are playing by brassbands
Hmm. Somehow I still don't seem to be explaining myself well enough.
Yes, you might *write* notes in treble clef for low brass instruments. But that is not how they *sound*. They sound over an octave - and in some cases over two octaves - *lower* than written. For instance, when you write a "G" above the treble clef staff for trombone, what actually sounds is the "F" an octave and a step below that. I have been assuming you know this instinctively but simply aren't realizing that MuseScore is trying to deal with this for you, so my explanation isn't making sense. Let me try again.
MuseScore provides a "Concert Pitch" button that allows you to enter or view your score either at written or sounding pitch. For instance, in the case of the first note of the first trombone part - which you have entered as a "G" above the treble clef staff - that is presumably the correct *written* pitch. The corresponding *sounding* pitch is the bottom-space F. In MuseScore, if you want to deal with the world of *written* pitches, you have to do so with the Concert Pitch button turned *off*. With the Concert Pitch button turned *on*, MuseScore is showing you the *sounding* pitch. And "G" above the treble clef as a *sounding* pitch is *way* beyond the range of almost every trombone player alive. If you were to write it for trombone, you'd have to do so as an "A" four ledger lines above the treble clef staff.
So if you want to enter the top-of-staff "G" that you know should be *written* for trombone, you have to do it with Concert Pitch turned *off*. With Concert Pitch turned *on*, you have to enter the *sounding* pitch - the bottom-of-staff "F".
Again - with Concert Pitch turned *on*, you have to enter notes how they *sound*, not how they are written. If you wish to enter notes how they are *written*, you have to do so with concert pitch turned *off*. It appears you entered notes as they are *written* but did it with Concert Pitch turned *on*. This doesn't work, as you have discovered. So now that you have entered the notes incorrectly, you will need to transpose them manually to fix the error, as I have been explaining. And in the future, if you wish to enter notes as they are *written*, you have to do so with Concert Pitch turned *off*. Then everything will just work as you expect. It's only because you entered *written* pitch notes with Concert Pitch turned *on* that you are seeing a problem.
In reply to Hmm. Somehow I still don't by Marc Sabatella
Thank you I understand now, one issue, you never know when concert pitch is selected or not, so now when I do switch it the music is all over the place as you said.
Ah well too much work now, but when I start another arrangement I will check this first before I start.
Thanks
Chris
In reply to Thank you I understand now, by brassbands
Not sure what OS you are on, but on Windows at least, it's pretty easy to tell by looking at the button whether it is enabled or not. When enabled, it had a shadowed border, just like the selected duration value in the note input toolbar. You can always try pressing it to toggle it so you get a sense of what the two different visual appearances are.
Realistically, if the problem is as simple as what I am thinking it may be, it wouldn't take but a couple of minutes to fix. Go staff by staff, click first note, shift+ctrl+end, notes / transpose, enter the interval you transpose down by, then if necessary fix the key. Should take only seconds per staff once you get the hang of it.
In reply to Not sure what OS you are on, by Marc Sabatella
windows 7 but its not clear when you are in concert pitch or not
In reply to windows 7 but its not clear by brassbands
Just to make sure you're looking the right place, it's the leftmost button on the note input toolbar. Here's "on":
And here's "off":
Looks like the standard Windows for indicating a pressed button. But of course, you *do* have to remember to look at it - there's no flashing lights to get your attention or anything. Another big clue: when you first create your score, if Concert Pitch is *on*, all the key signatures will be the same. If Concert Pitch is *off*, they will all be different as appropriate for the various instrument - that is all handled automatically. The key signatures are probably what I look at more than anything. But your score has gotten messed up, presumably from your attempts to outsmart the mechanism. So the keys are as appropriate for written pitch (mostly; not sure about baritone?) even though Concert Pitch is actually *on*.
As you get more familiar with the program, this becomes second nature. When you first create the score, you check the state of the button and/or the key signatures, and then either leave it alone or toggle it. The button doesn't change state on its own after that, so it's mostly a "set it and forget it" thing. You only toggle it when you want to change the view.
I think most people are probably more comfortable thinking in sounding pitch, so they turn Concert Pitch *on* and enter the music at sounding pitch. They only then turn Concert Pitch *off* to convert to written pitch just before generating the parts, and they leave it off from then on. So they might literally change the state of this button just once during the life of the score.
Sounds like you are more comfortable thinking in written pitch. If so, you are better off turning Concert Pitch *off* if necessary as the very first thing you do upon score creation, and then just leaving it off forever. I assume you are using the "UK Brass Band" template. If so, it seems concert pitch defaults to *on*. So just get in the habit of immediately turning it off, and you should never have to worry about it again for that score.
In reply to Just to make sure you're by Marc Sabatella
Thanks I just did a test as per your instructions and now I have it.
I just need to remember to do this when I start again next time.
Thank you very much indeed.
Chris
In reply to Thanks I just did a test as by brassbands
I had it going all too well when making the changes, then the software crashed!!!
Auto save function was selected!!!
Now I have to start amending all over again.
Not very happy now
Chris
In reply to I had it going all too well by brassbands
http://musescore.org/en/node/20367
maybe there is hope ...
In reply to Have you tried? by Shoichi
Great I found a later copy saved, not everything I did but quite a bit.
Thanks
Chris
For future compositions, try using the attached template and make sure that Concert Pitch is always unchecked (from what you say, you don't need this feature as you are experienced and know how to enter the notes for the different-pitched instruments). You might want to add or modify an instrument (right-click, adjust Stave Properties and transpose paying attention also to octaves).
Note that when you create a New score using any template that MuseScore asks you for the Title and then the Key Signature and that it will treat the key signature that you enter as being Concert Pitch. Thus, if you create a New score using this template and enter Bb Major as your key then MuseScore will put the (concert-pitch) Bass Trombone in Bb, the Bb Cornets in C and your Horns, Sop, Eb Bass in G.
You can cut this template down and save a new one for small brass ensemble, quartets etc.
Tip - save frequently and keep multiple backup copies.