(MuseScore 2.2.1) Possible problem in the support by "MuseScore" of the "Musical Markup"? !

• May 17, 2018 - 21:37
Reported version
2.2
Type
Functional
Severity
S4 - Minor
Status
closed
Project

Le : Jeudi 17 mais 2018
De : "André Gagnoud" ;

Sujet : (MuseScore 2.2.1) Possible problème dans le support par "MuseScore" du "Balisage Musical" ? !

Tout d'abord, un grand merci pour le logiciel gratuit "MuseScore". J

Je ne suis qu'un musicien "amateur", et loin d'avoir le talent d'un professionnel".
Certes, les musiciens célèbres des nombreux siècles précédents, ont inventé ces signes (à consonance italienne)
que j'appelle "Balisage Musical", mais n'avaient peut-être pas le raisonnement algorithmique d'un informaticien programmeur.
D'où, selon moi, certaines ambiguïtés (ou évidences non dites) dans les signes qu'ils ont inventés.

Ma compréhension concernant le "balisage musical" (Reprises, Barres de mesure) est :

  1. Le signe "To Coda" doit être ignoré tant que l'on n'a pas rencontré l'un des 2 signes terminés par .. al Coda" : "D.C. al Coda", ou "D.S. al Coda"
  2. Le signe de Reprise arrière simple ":|" en fin de mesure a priorité même, si en fin de cette mesure se trouve aussi le signe "D.C al Coda" ou "D.S. al Coda", mais au second passage en fin de cette mesure, c'est l'autre signe "D.C al Coda" ou "D.S. al Coda" qui sera pris en compte.
    Ce signe de Reprise arrière simple ":|" renvoie au signe « Début de Reprise simple "|:" le plus récent trouvé précédemment.
  3. Le signe "D.S."(= continuer à jouer en revenant au signe '.S/.")
    = selon moi : soit vers le début du morceau si ce signe '.S/." n'est utilisé qu'une seule fois
    ou ! ? vers le signe '.S/." le plus récent rencontré (présent dans le milieu d'un morceau !)
  4. Le signe "D.C. Al Coda"(= continuer à jouer en revenant 'al Capo' = au tout début du morceau), et, dès que l'on rencontre "To Coda",
    sauter directement au signe "|-O-|" (cercle barré horizontalement et verticalement).
  5. Le signe "D.S. Al Coda"(= continuer à jouer en revenant au signe '.S/."), et, dès que l'on rencontre "To Coda",
    sauter directement au signe "|-O-|" (cercle barré horizontalement et verticalement).

Ma compréhension concernant le "balisage musical" (Mesures conditionnelles surmontées par "1.", "2." ) est :

  1. Une zone de mesures conditionnelles surmontées par "2." ne doit se trouver que une zone surmontée par "2."
  2. Une zone de mesures conditionnelle surmontées par "1." ne doit être joués qu’à sa 1Ière rencontre, mais sera ignorés à sa 2ième rencontre.
    => Selon moi, ce signe (Mesures conditionnelles surmontées par "1.", "2." ) est très utile pour désigner des zones appelées
    "Couplet 1", "Couplet 1", "Couplet3"
  3. MuseScore ne pourrait-il pas fournir aussi la possibilité de Mesures conditionnelles surmontées par "4.", etc. pour des "Couplets" supplémentaires ?

Voir le fichier d’exemple
« andre.gagnoud@laposte.net - Test 1 - Balisage Musical (Anacrouse, Refrain, 3 Couplets) = OK.mscz »

Mais alors, concernant ces mesures conditionnelles surmontées par "1.", "2." vient ma question :
9. Puisque MuseScore semble (à juste titre selon moi) autoriser, à l’intérieur de ces zones "Couplet 1, 2, ou 3)", des petites zones "locales au couplet" comportant, elles aussi, quelques mesures conditionnelles surmontées par "1.", "2." ) ? Ce cas se rencontre aussi fréquemment. MuseScore semble le permettre, mais ne sait pas le gérer par une séquence d’exécution logique ! L

Voir le fichier d’exemple
« andre.gagnoud@laposte.net - Test 2 - Balisage Musical (Anacrouse, Refrain, 3 Couplets, et Reprises locales dans Couplet1 = KO.mscz »

Voila ! Qu’en pensez-vous ?

Note : Dans les rubriques d’aide de MuseScore, il me semble qu’il manque le genre de texte que je viens de rédiger ci-dessus.
N’hésitez pas à l’améliorer et à le publier dans les rubriques d’aide de MuseScore.


Comments

Title (MuseScore 2.2.1) Possible problème dans le support par "MuseScore" du "Balisage Musical" ? ! (MuseScore 2.2.1) Possible problem in the support by "MuseScore" of the "Musical Markup"? !

Google translate:
On: Thursday, the 17th but 2018
From: "André Gagnoud";

Topic: (MuseScore 2.2.1) Possible problem in the support by "MuseScore" of the "Musical Markup"? !

First of all, a big thank you for the free software "MuseScore". J

I am only a musician "amateur", and far from having the talent of a professional ".
Certainly, the famous musicians of many previous centuries, have invented these signs (Italian-sounding)
which I call "Musical Markup", but perhaps did not have the algorithmic reasoning of a computer programmer.
Hence, in my opinion, certain ambiguities (or unspoken evidences) in the signs they invented.

My understanding about "musical markup" (Reprise, Barres de mesure) is:
1.The sign "To Coda" must be ignored until one of the 2 signs ending in "al Coda" is reached: "D.C. al Coda ", or" D.S. al Coda "
2.The simple backslide sign ": |" at the end of the measurement takes precedence even if at the end of this measurement is also the sign "DC al Coda" or "DS al Coda", but the second passage at the end of this measurement is the other sign "DC al Coda "or" DS al Coda "which will be taken into account.
This sign of simple backward recovery ": |" refers to the sign "Beginning of Simple Resume" |: "the most recent found previously.
3.The sign "D.S." (= Continue playing by returning to the sign '.S /.')
= in my opinion: either towards the beginning of the piece if this sign '.S /.' is used only once
or ! ? to the sign '.S /.' the most recent met (present in the middle of a piece!)
4.The sign "D.C. Al Coda" (= continue playing by returning 'al Capo' = at the very beginning of the song), and, as soon as you meet "To Coda",
jump directly to the sign | | -O- | " (circle barred horizontally and vertically).
5.The sign "D.S. Al Coda" (= continue playing by returning to the sign ".S /."), And, as soon as we meet "To Coda",
jump directly to the sign | | -O- | " (circle barred horizontally and vertically).

My understanding of "musical markup" (Conditional measures overcome by "1.", "2.") is:
6.A zone of conditional measures surmounted by "2." only one area topped by "2."
7.A conditional measurement area topped by "1." should only be played at its first meeting, but will be ignored at its second meeting.
=> In my opinion, this sign (conditional measures overcome by "1.", "2.") is very useful for designating areas called
"Verse 1", "Verse 1", "Verse 3"
8.MuseScore could not also provide the possibility of Conditional Measures surmounted by "4.", etc. for additional "Couplets"?

See the sample file
«Andre.gagnoud@laposte.net - Test 1 - Musical Markup (Anacrouse, Chorus, 3 Couplets) = OK.mscz»

But then, regarding these conditional measures overcome by "1.", "2." comes my question:
9. Since MuseScore seems (rightly in my opinion) to authorize, within these "Couplet 1, 2, or 3" zones, small "local to couplet" areas which also include some conditional measures to be overcome by "1.", "2." )? This case also occurs frequently. MuseScore seems to allow it, but does not know how to handle it by a logical execution sequence! The

See the sample file
«Andre.gagnoud@laposte.net - Test 2 - Musical Markup (Anacrouse, Chorus, 3 Couplets, and Local Replay in Couplet1 = KO.mscz»

Here is ! What do you think ?

Note: In the help sections of MuseScore, it seems to me that it lacks the kind of text I just wrote above.
Do not hesitate to improve it and publish it in the help sections of MuseScore.

The 2nd file mentioned above is actually attached to #272489: (MuseScore 2.2.1) Possible problème dans le support par "MuseScore" du "Balisage Musical" ? !

Actually that Google translation doesn't make the issue much clearer to me :-(
Some problem with jumps and repeats it seems.

Maybe it helps the OP to read up on https://musescore.org/en/handbook/voltas and https://musescore.org/en/handbook/repeats-and-jumps, resp. their French counterparts https://musescore.org/fr/handbook/alternatives-de-reprise and https://musescore.org/fr/handbook/reprises-et-sauts
Also to the OP: you could try to ask your questions in the French forum, here in the issue tracker we should keep thing in English and restrict it to real bugs and feature requests.

A further reply came in via #272508: Test 2 - Balisage Musical (Anacrouse, Refrain, 3 Couplets, et Reprises locales dans Couplet1 = KO, along with yet another score attached:
Hello, Jojo-Schmitz,

To me, the Google translation seems sufficient to explain the problem.
I speak english fluently, but am unfamiliar with the english equivalent for the french musical terms.

For the subject file which do not run as expected,
here is the sequence of measures as I expect them to be played (by humans & by MuseScore)

"andre.gagnoud@laposte.net - Test 2 - Balisage Musical (Anacrouse, Refrain, 3 Couplets, et Reprises locales dans Couplet1 = KO.mscz"
=> This file is, of course, a "contraction" of real cases (not uncommon ones !) I have often seen.

Anacrouse : m1
Refrain : m2, m3
Couplet 1 : m4, m5, m4, m6
Refrain : m2, m3
Couplet 2 : m7
Refrain : m2, m3
Couplet 3 : m8
Refrain (part 1/2) : m2
Coda : m9

Thank you for your analysis of this case.
Have I designed it improperly ?
What should I change withe the MusiScore tools, yet attempting to achieve the desired sequence describes above.

Please keep me informed. :-)

Status (old) needs info closed
Status needs info closed

So this really isn't a bug report but a support request, and as such needs to go to the forum.
But also the apparently desired roadmap
roadmap.png
is way too complex for MuseScore or any musician to handle, nested repeats and nested voltas, plus jumps...