Using key arrows don't correlate
When an object is selected, it can be moved by pressing Up and Down on the keypad. It goes into the direction of arrows that are pressed.
When the same object is selected, using the Inspector and typing Up and Down keypad, it goes into the opposite direction.
Perhaps there is a very valid reason for coding it in that way, but that is very unintuitive for two reasons:
1. Moving an object with Up and Down in two working instances give the opposite movement of direction.
2. Typing Up when object is moving down in the Inspector is contrary to what is typed (and previous learned what that key does).
And also:
Horizontal value (Horizonal offset, Leading space, Trailing space etc) in the Inspector should have Left and Right arrows (instead of Up and Down) and should be edited by Left and Right arrows on the keyboard. That would also correspond to what happens when you press Left and Right arrow on the keypad when an item is selected).
I guess there are thousand reasons for having just so what is now, I can listen, but it is very, very unintuitive and confusing. Numerous students of mine have already complained and commented on that.
I think that editing items in the Inspector is extremely useful, one of the most beautiful things in MS. However my editing in the Inspector is a constant of try-and-see-what-happens editing.
Comments
You are not alone, see:
https://musescore.org/en/node/269724
https://musescore.org/en/node/180576
Most of the confusion comes from vertical adjustments (in the Inspector) where increasing values move a score element down.
Regarding the horizontal, you wrote:
Horizontal value (Horizonal offset, Leading space, Trailing space etc) in the Inspector should have Left and Right arrows (instead of Up and Down)
The numerical values displayed in the 'spin boxes' can be only increased or decreased - which is why there are no left/right arrows.
Try this:
Select a score element.
Hover your mouse over one of the 'spin boxes'.
Move the mouse wheel up/down and watch the element move accordingly.
The values only increase or decrease - hence the up/down arrows on the boxes. (No 'sideways' values are possible.)
Regards.
In reply to You are not alone, see:… by Jm6stringer
QUOTE: The numerical values displayed in the 'spin boxes' can be only increased or decreased - which is why there are no left/right arrows.
I don't understand why increasing something should not be possible with Left/Right Arrow - as it is on a ruler; or simply said, why not to use XY axis as a template for object positioning, when we have just keys that correspond to that axis?
On the contrary: we do use the Left and Right Arrows for positioning when an object is selected.
The most crucial problem I see here is that the Arrow Keys used for selection positioning are contrary to the Inspector. This is really, really difficult to understand; time consuming and confusing particularly for students (= beginners).
In reply to I don't understand why… by st.palamas
Spin boxes are a very standard control - we didn't invent them. Up/down is just how they work. Even if we invented a specialized version that also supported left/right, chances are very few people would ever stumble on that, since everyone knows the standard spin boxes.
The question is, now that you understand all of this, can you come up with a good solution? So far, no one else has, which is why it is still like this despite lots and lots of people understanding the problem.
In reply to Spin boxes are a very… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks Marc.
Well, I think that the solution should be covered with one simple rule:
- the Keypad Arrows move an item in the direction of typed Arrow - in all editing.
Further:
- when an object is selected (by mouse), the Keypad Arrows move that object in the desired direction (the Arrow direction). That works very well! (My comment: the snap-to-grid function is indeed wonderful; easy to control the exact position of an item).
For the Inspector:
a) the Spin Boxes for the vertical positioning should move exactly in the same direction of move as when the object is selected (as above) and when Up and Down arrow is typed (or clicked on the arrows). So to speak, just to swap Up and Down direction of move. That would correspond the direction of Arrow and also would correspond editing when items are selected.
b) the horizontal move should be done with the Left and Right Arrows, and the direction of move is in the direction of the typed Arrow and is the same as when the object is selected and the same Arrow is used.
Here is my proposal of how it could look like.
Generally, there is no difference when an object is selected and the Arrows used, and in the Inspector.
Best wishes
In reply to Thanks Marc. Well, I think… by st.palamas
Again, though, the question is, now that you understand the technical reasons why it is the way it is now, how do you propose resolving those issues? And how do you propose teaching users about this brand new control that looks just like a spin box but in which the left and right arrows don't move the cursor as they normally do? How do plan to make sure it's still possible to move the cursor within the spin box?
I think it would be nice to make the vertical offset conform to a standard cartesian plane so that an increase in y results in an upward movement and a decrease in y results in a downward movement. For the rest (horizontal movement) I think it is exactly as one should expect. To change all the code to make the vertical movements flip is of course not something that will likely happen :-(
In reply to I think it would be nice to… by Louis Cloete
Right, but it's not completely impossible. Still wouldn't address the left/right motion, though. Which is why most of the thinking I've seen on this issue in the past has centered on replacing spin boxes with another control entirely. But then, what about all the other places we use spin boxes to specify X/Y offsets (eg, all over the Style dialogs)? Some of them provide full X/Y positioning, but others only vertical (eg, chord symbol height), others only horizontal (eg, distance between barline and first note of measure). It's a very large can of worms.
In reply to Right, but it's not… by Marc Sabatella
There are motions of X and motions of Y, there is no motion of X/Y in the same box; so I think it is pretty clear that it could be interesting to see how different options could work (left-right). But I understand that it can be a lot of work to edit this.
To skip further commenting, my suggestion is to make a test version of different approaches or to make a survey and see how people react in the most cases. Just an idea!
In reply to There are motions of X and… by st.palamas
Indeed, there is currently no single control that combines X/Y, but one possibility is to introduce one - this would be one way of solving the left/right problem. So this control could be used in the Inspector to replace the existing separate X and Y controls, and it could also be used anywhere there are X & Y controls together. but then, what about the places where - for good reason - there are not X & Y controls together but only one or the other?
Again, it's obvious enough that it would be nice to have some sort of control in which the arrow keys move an element in the corresponding direction. Thus far, though, there is no clear proposal for how to actually accomplish this goal. merely saying "it would be nice to have a such a control" doesn't help anyone actually build it, any more than saying "it would be nice to have a time machine" helps anyone build that :-)
In reply to Indeed, there is currently… by Marc Sabatella
Kind of virtual analog sticks ;-) 2D ones where you want both x and y and correctly oriented 1D ones where you want only one.