Hear notes that aren't playbacked when starting midway.
Yes that's a nice title, let me explain. I cannot explain it without an example, so I'll use an example.
In the images you can see an orchestral score... yes it's that score again. So, if I start the playback from where the horns start playing (ON Number 5) the horns will be heard. But if I start the playback EXACTLY a moment after the horns start (like in the moment shown in the second image) they won't be heard... so my idea is that: if you want to hear something in a specific time with all the instruments, but some instruments are already holding a note from before the moment you want to hear, then they should ALSO be played, because now they won't be heard.
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Comments
MuseScore needs to see the 'note-on' event to start playing a sound. If you start playback after that event, that note won't play.
In reply to MuseScore needs to see the … by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes but don't you think everyone wants that feature? It's not major but still useful.
In reply to Yes but don't you think… by [DELETED] 32872726
I think what he is saying is that MuseScore gets all its information on how to reproduce a note in playback from the start of the note. Things like pitch, volume, articulation and more. Not all that information can be found two beats into a whole note.
Think of it this way: If you are reading and see "ishmentarianism", you are missing the beginning of the word. You might figure out what the whole word is, but there are a few choices.
Or "odilians".
In reply to I think what he is saying is… by bobjp
Yes, thought of that... Then how about selecting a measure where some notes have in theory already started but whe starting the playback, the system starts the notes then? It won't be a problem I think!
In reply to Yes, thought of that... Then… by [DELETED] 32872726
Its a good idea, and one I'm sure everyone would welcome, but it sounds like doing this would require a complete overhaul of musescore's playback function.
In reply to Its a good idea, and one I'm… by CactusKing
Ok.
In reply to Yes, thought of that... Then… by [DELETED] 32872726
To implement a feature like this seems an unnecessary complication. One reason in particular is that MuseScore now has single note dynamic playback capability (a relatively new feature). So, if a point in the score is chosen where the note is at a different dynamic than from when it started, how should playback behave? At what dynamic level should the note sound? Also, should the note attack be included?
Seems to me like a tall order when one can simply choose a better place in the score to start playback.
In reply to To implement a feature like… by Jm6stringer
I will certainly not say that it is "easy" to implement.
However it is very easy and clear of what is expected, even with dynamic playback.
What is expected is just what would be produced by outputting a mp3 from the full score and playing it starting there.
And I'm not saying that that result is what is always expected from playback, only that it is expected with that new hypothetical option.
In reply to To implement a feature like… by Jm6stringer
The only way to get it to sound correct in all conceivable cases would be to temporarily jump back to the beginning of the earliest-starting note that's still playing, have the sequencer ask the synthesizer to quickly render the entire audio stream from that point up to the current time into a throwaway buffer, then switch back over to the audio device and continue rendering at normal speed.
Way too difficult for a relatively small benefit.
In reply to The only way to get it to… by Spire42
Difficult, and also would probably introduce some lag time while it renders. The current playback system is great with how quick it is, but saving the score as an mp3 can take more than a few seconds
In reply to The only way to get it to… by Spire42
I'm not so sure, I think the amount of work may be less than is being estimated here, and the benefit is probably greater. Still, it's probably not trivial indeed, and it's not that big a deal to just start playback a little earlier.
In reply to I'm not so sure, I think the… by Marc Sabatella
Alright I got it. It was silly idea xD .
In reply to Alright I got it. It was… by [DELETED] 32872726
No, not at all. It's a good idea.
I just hope Marc is right and it ends up being easier to implement than it seems. Want to give it a shot, Marc?
In reply to No, not at all. It's a good… by Spire42
The absence of this feature makes it impossible to debug long "pedal points", meaning not specifically organ music, but any note held many measures, like the bass under the first hundred or so of the overture to "Das Rheingold", or BWV 540 of Bach. I have never complained about it before, but the absence of this feature is, in my opinion, a serious deficiency. This is not about the way it plays back music, but about the actions it must take preparatory to doing so. When playback starts in the middle of the note, the editor must stuff some "preface" in front of what is in the score. Count me in the "want this badly" choir.
In reply to No, not at all. It's a good… by Spire42
Well, no, the MIDi rendering and synthesizer code is the area I am the least familiar with, and the part about to get the biggest rewrite. Maybe after the dust settles on all that, but then I'll know even less. I think it's more something to bring up in the design discussions for MuseScore 4.
In reply to Well, no, the MIDi rendering… by Marc Sabatella
.......or delete the tie(s) where you want to start playback. Put it (or them) back when you are done.
In reply to .......or delete the tie(s)… by bobjp
!!! Can't we "teach the computer to do that!?"
In reply to !!! Can't we "teach the… by [DELETED] 1831606
We could, but that’s only a partial fix, doesn’t handle sustained long notes other than via ties. So starting on beat 4/4 of a 4/4 measure would still miss the whole notes, etc. I’d rather see a more complete solution, if we’re to spend the time implementing anything.
In reply to We could, but that’s only a… by Marc Sabatella
I don't know if I agree or not. Being able to play from a measure is much more important than mid-measure.
In reply to I don't know if I agree or… by [DELETED] 1831606
The fix would be the same in either case: a note-on event (which had passed already) would need to get re-generated.
In reply to The fix would be the same in… by Jojo-Schmitz
Wait you are still thinking of adding it?
In reply to The fix would be the same in… by Jojo-Schmitz
For an instrument like a piano, the correct amount of decay after the note-on would have to be applied somehow to give the correct sound at the desired starting point for playback.
To get round this perhaps a sort of silent play back could be started from a position before any note-ons for notes "mid-play" and only become audible at the point the user has specified. The user would then experience a delay between pressing play and starting to hear something of course, unless there is some way to "fast-forward" note decay.
In reply to For an instrument like a… by SteveBlower
That's true; decaying instruments cut this plan off in the middle. Note that composers, esp of fugues, write long bass "pedal points" even in pieces not intended for sustaining instruments, and they tend to die out soon after birth on harpsichord or piano. Inexperienced beginner composers do that (on the site) a lot. Or sometimes even renowned composers.
In reply to That's true; decaying… by [DELETED] 1831606
Perhaps they are meant for long pianos which are capable of keeping the sound more than other pianos.
In reply to Perhaps they are meant for… by [DELETED] 32872726
: ) (in truth, I think they're imitation of organ style, where the pedal has even given its name to this gesture). The very first fugue of the Well-Tempered Clavier (BWV 846) ends with a C3 lasting four 4/4 measures at a moderato. If pianos are not long enough, think of harpsichords, and don't even think of clavichords.
In reply to : ) (in truth, I think they… by [DELETED] 1831606
Oh true, after all Bach wrote for a church I think.
In reply to Oh true, after all Bach… by [DELETED] 32872726
Bach's career and output are more than can fit in this message. Among almost every instrument available in his lifetime, he certainly wrote for "clavier", meaning generally harpsichord, clavichord, virginal, etc. (not organ). There is no more renowned composer for "harpsichord:", nor "harpsichord" work more renowned than the Well-Tempered Clavier (except perhaps the "Addams Family theme song":) . Why these basically harpsichord fugues contain long notes that are not even vaguely in the capabilities of 18th century keyboard instruments (not including the organ) is a question rooted in previous musical history and style, and performance technique, not sacred music.
In reply to The only way to get it to… by Spire42
Also quite tricky to find the oldest still-playing note…