Workaround for triangle in chord symbols to automatically imply 7

Sample score please. "at" -> "A∆" does play back, as does "a7" > "A7" and "at7" > "A∆7" but "a7t" > "A7∆" though indeed does not (other then the A itself), do you mean that?

It is A Major 7, so "at7" > "A∆7" makes sense, while "a7t" > "A7∆" does not, A 7 Major?

Technically, the triangle by itself - without the 7 - doesn't necessarily mean to play the seventh; many musicians use it to indicate a triad. The 7 should therefore always be included.

Still, it's not uncommon for people to omit it - similar issues for half-diminished (see #297246: Chord symbols: in some cases, 0 (zero) does not turn into ø), so at some point we should probably support this alternate notation style.

Ah, misunderstanding on my side.

FWIW, there was a forum post or two about this, but apparently no issue submitted that I can find.

Also, to be clear, this issue isn't unique to playback, it is built-in to the parser that hasn't changed appreciably in many years. It's just that previously, the only way to recognize that the triangle wasn't implying the 7th already was to export to MusicXML. Now playback is there to tell the same story.

Hello. I'm curious if this subject is still being considered. I know that for jazz players, the triangle does imply the 7. I would think that the triangle is used more often as maj 7 then simply the triad.

Hi, I can only enforce that the triangle (alias "t" or "^") should stand for a 4 voice major7 chord in Jazz (0 4 7 11). Short symbols are important, when there is not much room in a measure (eg 4 chords per bar). (Regular length is fine here)
"Xt" is a very common and basic chord, as is X-7 , X7 or X0, they should render short with symbols and should be recognized as such. I think that MusicXML treats the triangle as 3 note major only.
Just my 2 cents (maybe 2,5 cents since I read jazz chords intensively for some decades)
Kai

Hi! I just thought I'd add that I was noticing the 3 note interpretation happening in v4.0.2, not just v3.6.

If you are writing for musicians, you can use the "Jazz" interpretation, just make sure they understand the convention.

If, however, you are writing for MIDI, you must understand that the "Classical" (if I may use that term) interpretation is that the 7 is not implied and must be added.

If the convention now used is switched to your preference, many others who follow the established convention will then have a problem.

How do you propose that they "remove" the 7 unless specifically asked for?

I write a great deal of music for players. I was used to the 7 being implied, but when I though about it, I realized that it is a very insignificant addition to my work flow to follow the convention now established in MuseScore.

See also #340528: Making Chords M7 and #310238: Ct chord symbol generates same notes as C chord symbol, which might be duplicates
Relates to #310930: [EPIC] Issues with Chord Symbols playback

Hi,
I am looking for a personal workaround to the above matter (triangle implies major and major7, t==>"0 4 7 11")
[I am aware of the chordsymbol Style xml files and am able to control the display, but not the sound|voicing]
Is there a non-source-touching way to "invent" a new Chord the parser takes as given, including voicing for its playback.
For example:
The following "j" eg should replace triangle "t" as I would like it. So "Cj" should define the chord (display and sound) entirely, without needing (the lengthy and complicated) parser.
I would like the basic jazz (4 note) chords to be short and of equal length, as there are some already (like m7b5==0). Extensions in addition to those: Root, Basic Chord, Extensions.

Maybe someone can give me an sketch of a predefined "Xj" chord -with voicing- in the XML style files.
Thanks a lot

Kai

The style files control the display only, not the playback or the parsing. To get playback to include the seventh, you need to have the 7 there. But, you can have a custom XML file to force the 7 not to display. Something like this at the bottom of the file (just before the closing musescore tag):

    <chord>
      <name>t7</name>
      <render>triangle</render>
      </chord>

Or you could add the chord you to see but disable it's playback, and also the chord you want to hear but make it invisible.

Thanks. I also tried similar things. Without success! With regards to the < chord > Tag. I tried to follow the two examples (6/9 and 6) -commented out- at the end. Seems to have no effect.
The changes in < token class="xxx" > seem to be read in, but I am not sure if that is the correct spot and don't understand the logic.

Greetings

btw. I use your file with the stacked chord extension with eg "[9/13]" syntax with success.

I tested it and it worked fine for me, but note whenever using custom XML files, the customziation get written to the score so changing the file afterwards won't work. You'll need to do each test with a new file to make sure you are seeing the effects correctly.

I wouldn't really recommend messing with the token definitions because then you wouldn't be able to also have t9 etc. For this purpose I think you need to catch each specific chord.

if you need further help, please ask on the Support forum. This issue tracker has been retired and is not normally visible to folks who otherwise might be able to help.

Thanks, works now!!! I never really used a NEW file. I will repeat maybe your hint helps others:

If (even) I apply the above (or similar) patch to the xml chord style file and connect to a new file, a new chord symbol like "ct7" now sounds and displays like expected, with triangle only and sound with major7th.

I consider this a workaround since extensions like "ct79" still display all three symbols and have to be defined similar i suppose. I'll look into that some more.

Yes, you'll need similar chord definitions for each variant you want displayed in a non-default way.