Playback problem with swing and dynamics
Is there a known bug related to swing and dynamics? In the excerpt included here, there is a very noticeable bug, where the dynamics (seemingly both dynamic markings and articulations) seem to follow straight eights - In the section with many fp's it's very noticeable, but I think I can hear it subtly also where there is only off-beat marcatos.
It's only a problem where there is sound immediately before the dynamic change (of course), so dynamic shifts right after a rest/short note are not affected - they're not omitted/lost.
Is this a known bug? I find other swing problems when I search, but not this specifically. And if it's new - is it likely to be fixed in 4? And if so, is this worth adding to the bug tracker?
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| swing and dynamics bug.mscz | 24.48 KB |
Comments
On my system using the default HQ font, I definitely hear a problem with all the fp marks. Using different fonts seems to help. As to why that is, I don't know.
In reply to On my system using the… by bobjp
Good to know that it's just not on my system.
I've tried now at different swing percentages, to see if my theory that dynamics follow straight eights make sense. The included file shows the same section first at 70%, 60% and then swing off. It's clear that the problem occurs at both swing versions, but is gone with swing off. I seem to be correct in observing symptoms, though I have no idea what the underlying problem is, coding wise...
This seems like a bug. Any insight to if this is already resolved in M4, with new playback engines and such?
In reply to Good to know that it's just… by Marius Munthe-Kaas
No idea. I'm just a user. But from my experiments, it might not be a coding problem.
In reply to Good to know that it's just… by Marius Munthe-Kaas
Workaround: shorten the notes before the "fp" dynamics.
As you can see in the sheet I attached: (I worked on a single instrument for testing)
1. When swing active, the fp dynamic affects the last-part of the previous note. And an additional note sounds as if there is another 16th/8th note there.
2. To test this, I replaced the last 8th parts of the notes with 8th rests. //It worked
3. In the last part, I tried to see if staccato worked. //That worked too. PS: (I used it on tied notes, not first notes, so it wouldn't get too short.)
In reply to Workaround: shorten the note… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Thanks! I noticed it wasn't an issue after rests/shorter notes indeed.
I don't think that's a good workaround, though, as you often wants accents after a legato note. Shortening the note before is often just as wrong.
In reply to Thanks! I noticed it wasn't… by Marius Munthe-Kaas
Yes, I also don't like unnecessary interventions/additions to notation. And yes, shortening the note that doesn't need to be shortened is highly undesirable.
But this is currently the only workaround (defense) at hand against the software's behavior. // Since this is not a problem for real instrument players, for now (until the bug is actually fixed), a second score can be saved as a "playback version" next to the real one. eg: scorename-playback.mscz
And that test score can also provide someone with a clue as to where the problem lies.
In reply to Yes, I also don't like… by Ziya Mete Demircan
That's true, good point!
It's a known issue in general - see #300710: Swung eighth notes do not accent correctly for instance, as well as other linked issues. Not sure if these are the same you found. But they are related to the same basic cause - dynamics info being calculated without respect to swing.
Right now the main focus is on fixing regressions - things that worked fine in 3.6.2 but don't in current nightly builds. But also, large amounts of the playback code have been or are still in the process of being rewritten. It's possible this won't be an issue by the time it is released.
In reply to It's a known issue in… by Marc Sabatella
Ah, that's probably it. I noticed it with accents as well, but it was very noticeable using accented fp's.
It's a known issue, then, so I won't do anything more at this time :-)
In reply to Ah, that's probably it. I… by Marius Munthe-Kaas
Just to add to the mix.
1. On my system with the default HQ font, I can't hear any of the accents played.
2. The fp's play the same with or without the accents (at least the fp's play). This makes sense if the accents are being ignored. But...
3. Four other fonts play the accents, but do not play the fp's.
Maybe the default font is doing what it is supposed to do. Loud attack followed by playing the rest of the note softly. But it's just too loud and too soft. I see adjustments in the inspector, but they don't seem to do much.
So, there maybe a code problem, but I think there's more to it. Why? Because using 4 other fonts, the accents play, but not the fp. With the default font the fp tries to play, but not the accents. It is great that MuseScore tries to be all things to all people. It is nice to be able to use different fonts. But there are trade-offs.
Personally, I've settled on the default font. It does more (but not all) of what I want than any of the many fonts I've tried.
The four other fonts were, SSO, Symphonic Sounds, Timbres of Heaven, and VSCO.