Help - the timing does not agree!!!!!
Hi folks: OK, I am driving myself crazy here. I am transcribing a John Williams score in 12/8 time to MuseScore. Here is a screenshot of the flute measure I am working on:
Note that it contains a septet + two dotted notes. The measure has no extra rests. This is John Williams writing this score remember.
Now in MuseScore, I inserted the same exact septet and two identical dotted notes in 12/8 time, but I have an 8th rest at the end of the measure.
HELP! What is going on?
Comments
To add the septet, select a dotted quarter (rest) at the beginning of that measure, goto Add/Tuplets/other and input a ratio of 7:6
In reply to To add the septet, select a… by Pentatonus
press 5 + .
goto add/tuplets/other -> ratio 7:6
In reply to [inline:tup1.png] press 5 + … by Pentatonus
Thanks. Your directions fixed it, but I have no idea why? What does a ratio of 7:6 mean? Why did I do this?
In reply to Thanks. Your directions… by fsgregs
It means: put 7 notes of 16th in the space, where there are normal 6 notes of 16th (3 notes of 8th)
Sorry for my bad english, not my native language
In reply to It means: put 7 notes of… by Pentatonus
OK, I understand. Your English is fine!!! Thanks.
In reply to [inline:tup1.png] press 5 + … by Pentatonus
It should be enough to select this dotted quarter rest (or a dotted quarter note) and press Ctrl-7 at step 2.
Thanks for helping me last time. Now I have another two. How do I enter this, using 12/8 time?
![Screenshot 2023-06-05 114509.png]( "Screenshot 2023-06-05 114509.png")
I can't seem to get it entered correctly?
In reply to Thanks for helping me last… by fsgregs
Do the same as above:
![n-tole.png]( "n-tole.png")
In reply to Do the same as above: … by HildeK
Thanks. Got the first one done OK but the 2nd one is not OK. When following the dotted quarter note suggestion, I get 5 eighth notes, not 16th notes, and when I try other combos, I still don't get it right. Please help one more time. Thanks so much.
In reply to Thanks. Got the first one… by fsgregs
Select a dotted quarter-note
Add >Tuplets > Other
Ratio 5:6
In reply to Instead of [Ctrl]7, go to… by underquark
I suspect that 5 quarter notes is correct. Just because you see something in print, doesn't mean it is correct.
Does that ratio 5:6 ,make 5 quarters wrong?
In reply to Thanks. Got the first one… by fsgregs
You have a 12/8 time signature. You need to start with a calculation:
In total, there must be 12 eighth notes or their equivalents. If you add the note and rest durations without the 5-tuplet, you will get 9 eighth notes: 6 eighth notes + one eighth rest on the left and six sixteenth notes (= three eighth notes) on the right. The result without the 5-tuplet is 6+3=9 eighth notes. There are three eighth notes or a dotted quarter remaining for the tuplet.
So write an eighth note, an eighth rest, four more eighth notes, then the dotted quarter rest as a placeholder for the tuplet, and finally the six 16th notes. Now select the dotted quarter rest and press Ctrl-5 for the 5-tuplet. Enter the notes in the tuplet.
Edit:
underquark is right. If you use only Ctrl-5, you get five eighth notes. If you use 5:6, the result is five sixteenths.
But it is only a visible difference: both variants have the same rhythm and sound.
In reply to You have a 12/8 time… by HildeK
Sorry long day. I meant 5 eight notes. Not quarter notes.
But do the 5 notes have to be 16ths?
In reply to Sorry long day. I meant 5… by bobjp
See my addendum above.
With Ctrl-5 it becomes eighth notes, with Ratio 5:6 sixteenth notes. But it only looks different, rhythm and sound are the same.
Yes, it was late yesterday :-).
In reply to See my addendum above. With… by HildeK
HildeK: Yep, I got eighth notes when I followed just inserting a quintet, but 16th notes when I also added the ratio of 5:6. Interesting that the notes play the same either way. I had not thought of that. What I just don't get is the ratio. What does 5:6 mean, as opposed to 6:5, or some other ratio? What is ratioing what?
In reply to HildeK: Yep, I got eighth… by fsgregs
Normally there are six (6) sixteenth notes over a beat which in 12/8 is three eights long. When you write 5:6 you say you only want five (5) notes over that beat. 5:6 means play five notes in the time period it would normally take to play six notes.
I find it easier to sight read this if it's written in Musescores default way, i.e:
![quintuplet.JPG]( "quintuplet.JPG")
The quintuplet quaver is shorter than the standard quaver but longer than a semiquaver, as it should be.
However the writing of tuplets in music publishing is often written in other ways, as the example you show.
![quintuplet2.JPG]( "quintuplet2.JPG")
I've been trying to achieve it using jeetee's brilliant nested tuplet method as in this post:
https://musescore.org/en/node/333686 however at the moment it's beyond me.
Here's how I managed it:
![quintuplet3.JPG]( "quintuplet3.JPG")
1. Place a dotted crotchet where the quintuplet will be
2. Select the dotted crotchet and CTRL-2 to make it a duplet
3. Select the duplet quaver and press W to double it's length to make it a duplet crotchet
4. Turn off the number & bracket
5. Select the crotchet and CTRL-5 to make it a semiquaver quintuplet
6. Fill in the missing quintuplet semiquavers
In reply to Here's how I managed it: … by rothers
Why so cumbersome?
That's all!
In reply to Why so cumbersome? Place a… by HildeK
See my above reply about ratios. Thanks a lot guys. We got it right.
In reply to Why so cumbersome? Place a… by HildeK
Nice one, 5:6 rather than the 5:3 I had stuck in my head.
In reply to Nice one, 5:6 rather than… by rothers
Far above it was suggested by underquark.