fret number placement in fretboad diagram
Hi Forums:
Sometimes I want to place the fret number in the middle of the frets shown in a fretboad diagram.
The reason why I want to do this is because in there are often very small changes to jazz chords that show where the music is going. By putting a few of those "lead in" or "lead out" notes in a fretboard diagram will allow me to see where the music is heading more clearly.... rather that learning this by switching back and forth betwee the 5-lines and the fretboard diagram.
I think that "where the music is going" should be expressed in both.
How can I do this?
Thanks,
Old
Comments
This will be improved in the next 4.4 (the Beta version has just been released). On this page (https://musescore.org/en/node/366024), scroll down to: New style options for fretboard diagrams.
The first thing I noticed was the new ability (a very, very former request!) to show fingerings below the fretboard diagram.
In reply to This will be improved in the… by cadiz1
Hello Cadiz,
Thank you for your reply. I'm glad to see new enhancements for fretboard diagrams. Fingering will be useful for many people.
I hope that future versions will include further improvements to fretboard diagrams that allows placement of the fretbard number wherever writers choose. I've attached an example of where it would be useful.
In my attached example, the chord is a triad in the minor major G7th that followed by a chromatic run from F# to E.
It would have been nice to indicate the minor major G7th is at the10th fret.
I hope for further flexibility in future Musescore versions that allow this!
Thank you!
Old
In reply to Hello Cadiz, Thank you for… by Old Jimma
Well, it's already possible. And it always has been, since Version 2 :)
In Properties, go to Settings, then set the wished Fret number.
In reply to Well, it's already possible… by cadiz1
Hi Cadiz:
thanks for your reply. Sorry for this very late reponse... I've been on the road and have not had internet access.
What you've indicated above is not exactly what a jazz guitarist needs. What you've provided shows that the only choice for displaying a fret number is on the lowest fret on the displayed fret grid.
What jazz guitarists need is to have the dispplayed fret number on any of the other frets on the displayed fret grid.
This will enable a jazz guitar play to display a chromatic pattern on the grid that shows its relation with a chord shape on the grid.
A further enhancement would enable not only the chord shape on the grid, but the fingering of the chromatic pattern WITHIN the grid.
In reply to Hi Cadiz: thanks for your… by Old Jimma
"What jazz guitarists need is to have the dispplayed fret number on any of the other frets on the displayed fret grid. This will enable a jazz guitar play to display a chromatic pattern on the grid that shows its relation with a chord shape on the grid"
Please attach an image to illustrate your point. A picture is worth a thousand words...
In reply to "What jazz guitarists need… by cadiz1
Hi Cadiz:
You are remarkable! Thanks for pursuing this topic.
I've attached the png flle that shows an Ami11 jazz chord that is played at the 7th fret, and chromatic notes that follow the chord. I've included the notation from the staff that I hope will help me communicte what I've been trying to communicate.
Thanks,
Old
In reply to Hi Cadiz: You are remarkable… by Old Jimma
Remarkable I don't know, but I do know that I'm a classical (not jazz) guitarist :)
So that's not my area of expertise either. One question though: is it common, I mean in published scores, to display "chromatic notes that the follow the chord" in this way?
For me it's unexpected since we're talking about a chord, but hey... Or is it a personal way of wanting to display things?
In reply to Remarkable I don't know, but… by cadiz1
Thanks for your reply.
I can say that all jazz guitarists will use a device that is similar, if not identical to the one I've illustrated with the attached png file. It is an essential part of jazz.... i.e., integrating a chromatic run before or after a jazz chord "expression" that indicates either a "chordal destination" (in the case of integrateing chromatic run before a jazz chord; or a "point of departure" toward another between "chordal destinations."
My guess is that classical music has the same notions... although jazz may own more of the routine chromatic runs... especially in improvisation and guitar chord melodies.
By allowing Musescore to place the chord's fret number anywhere along the vertical grid of frets, players will seem more clearly that the chord is... and what its roll is in voice leading afterwards with at chromatic run.
Everything is jazz is personal, and you won't hear a jazz great play a tune the same way twice:
By allowing Musescore to place the chord's fret number anywhere along the vertical grid of frets, students will gain the familiarity with the idea that, "yes, there is a descenting chromatic run written in the score, but you can use whatever you want especially if the new invention includes voice leading."
In jazz the score is a point of departure that may include suggestions.
In reply to Remarkable I don't know, but… by cadiz1
Hi Cadiz:
I re-read your query, "I mean in published scores, to display "chromatic notes that the follow the chord" in this way?"
The answer is, "Yes."
However, published jazz scores rarely include helpful fretboard diagrams....like can be published in Musescore.
Currently, I'm reading out of a book of jazz duets written by Joe Pass and Herb Ellis, published by Warner Bros Publications, Inc in 1972 (available used on Amazon).
It has all of the licks we are talking about... but it does not have fretboard diagrams. They didn't do that back in the old days. However, they do it often these days ... perhaps so that more people can read them.
Old
In reply to Remarkable I don't know, but… by cadiz1
Hello Cadiz,
Thank you for your discusssion on this issue. I've attached a futher example of how jazz guitarists often use non-standard ways of a chord followed by a chromatic run.
This example is drawn from a chord melody written by Mr. Bob Sneider, faculty at the Eastman School of Music in Rochester, NY (https://www.esm.rochester.edu/directory/sneider-bob/)
The attachement is a further example of a mi11 followed by a short chromatic run... where the composer has included a fretboard diagram with a fret grid that has a fret number displayed to the right in the middle fret grid.
I studied in the Georgia State Jazz program under Mr. Dave Frackenpohl (https://thearts.gsu.edu/profile/david-j-frackenpohl/) who would write chord melodies in the same fashion with a chord with a chromatic run and a fret number displayed either to the left or right in the middle of the fret grid.
Very sorry to belabor this point, and very sorry to bother you again on this matter.
My point in providing this further information is that this practice is not a quircky personal habit in scoring chord melodies. Rather, it is a commonly used practice.
Old
In reply to Hello Cadiz, Thank you for… by Old Jimma
So, something like that?
In reply to So, something like that? … by cadiz1
Hi Cadiz:
Your abilility do make a movie of writting a musescore is pretty impressive! You are good!!
The jazzer guitar arrangers would be happier if that F#mi11 chord had a "9" to the left of the 9th fret.
Here's the reason why:
(1) The movie is correct. However, when a guitarist is reading the grid, it takes more "cognitive computation" to figure out what that mi11 shape is because they must "count frets" from the fret denoted as "6" to the fret where the root of the mi11 is designated by the black dot on the "A" string.
Depending on the score those chord grids can be quite small... when this is the case, it is very difficult to count frets on th fret grid and the cognitive tax is much more..
(2) And then, the guitarist must recognize that the boxes are a descending chromatic 2-note run, by refering to the score.
(3) And, if the reader gets it right the first time, on the 2nd reading the guitarist must remember all of that data to play it correctly.
My conclusion from alot of exerience is: That's alot of cognitive calculations and memory access requests: its alot of tax!
Jazz guitarists could get a "tax break" if that numeral was a "9" and placed right next to the F# black dot on the "A" string on the chord grid...
That would eliminate much of the fret counting cognitive tax. If a "9" was placed to the right of the F# on the A string, the jazz player would more instantly understand that they must play an F#mi11, followed by a chromatic run.
Old
In reply to Hi Cadiz: Your abilility do… by Old Jimma
"The jazzer guitar arrangers would be happier if that F#mi11 chord had a "9" to the left of the 9th fret."
Ok, see: