Grey bars & weird beaming

• Feb 24, 2025 - 21:17

I imported a .musicxml file made with Music Scanner. I can see that it’s probably quicker to just create the whole thing from scratch, but I’m studying how MuseScore works so as to get efficient at editing — and so would love to understand what the heck is going in Page 2 of this .mscz file: Cem Anos De Choro.mscz

Three questions:

1) There are multiple grey bars. I can’t select them, nor can I see what they’re representing. I suspect they’re indicating hidden rests, but I want to delete whatever is there.

2) Measure 50 has weird beaming on Beat 2. I already asked MS to “Reset beams,” but the weird beaming persists. How to fix this?

3) M 50 should have a dot on the first note (G). If I try to add a dot, the following 16th-note (Bb) is deleted. I’ve tried cutting the last 5 notes of the measure, then changing the value of the G, then pasting those 5 notes back in. What happens is that they then go into the next measure and delete some of that. Wha?

In all 3 cases, I don’t understand what MS is doing!

(User context: I used Finale for some 30 years, and Pro Composer (Mark of the Unicorn — way better than Finale while it lasted) before that. I can always figure out what Finale is up to, and I’m trying my darnedest to get there with MS.)


Comments

This [deleted] reply corrected a couple of errors in the previous post. Then I saw that I could edit the original. 🤦🏼‍♂️

It's probably not a problem with the MuseScore program but more likely that the scan from PDF to XML was imperfect.

1] By "grey bars", do you mean the minus signs? Those indicate that the total duration of notes in the measure is less than the indicated time signature - they are just indicative, and not elements of musical notation.

2] Weird is in the eye of the beholder but in this case is likely due to the measure being incomplete - i.e. the note's don't add up - so the normal beaming rules don't give you the appearance that you want.

3] By default, MuseScore does not insert notes but replaces rests or existing notes with a new note. When you add a dot to lengthen a note, the time it needs gets taken from the rest or note after it. There are ways to insert notes but the default behaviour is fairly fundamental to the way MuseScore works and it works well in the majority of cases.

The bottom line is that this is probably due to a poor scan interpretation generating a poor XML and that MuseScore is likely just doing its best to interpret this poor XML file. Only very clean scans seem to do OK when interpreted and triplets, in particular, seem to be problematic (such as in measure 49).

For a fuller analysis, you should post original PDF, the XML that your program created and the MuseScore file.

Yes, the small gray bars at the upper right of a particular measure are minus signs. They indicate that the measure is shorter than the time signature says it should be.

From m.14 on, they are mostly (!!!) because you have 2/4 measures, but at 14 it has a Common Time signature (4/4). My first idea was to simply delete that but there are several measures that are other than 2/4, so you can't do it THAT simply.

M. 23 has an "Actual duration" of 7/16. Right-click on the measure (not on any note/rest, but on blank space within the measure) and click Measure properties... from the context menu that appears. Change the Actual duration to 2/4.

Then correct the missing dot. Ctrl+X (Cut) all of that measure except the eighth note at the beginning. Click that eighth note to select and press the period ( . ) key to change it to a dotted eighth. Then select the sixteenth rest after it and Ctrl+V (Paste) the rest of the measure back in.

M.s 41, 46, 51, and 59 have the same issue. Correct them the same way.

M. 50 has six eighth notes and an "Actual duration" of 48/64. Divide by 16 and it is 3/4. This measure clearly should be two eighth note triplets, like the two measures before it. You'll have to actually delete them and add triplets. You may find it easier to add a measure, add the triplets in the blank measure, and then delete the incorrect measure.

At this point, I deleted the Common Time signature and the whole piece is now in normal 2/4.

Cem Anos De Choro-2.mscz

I'm suspicious of m. 43-45. I'm'a guess that that's supposed to be two measures of eighth note triplets rather than three measures of eighth notes. If so, you'll have to fix that; I did not.

If it's supposed to be in Common Time from 14 on, change that back once you fix m. 43-45 and it will separate the measures properly. I did not do that because of those measures.

[A few moments later] Oh, BTW, there is also a gray plus sign that can appear in the same place as the gray minus signs. You can probably guess that it means that a measure is longer than the time signature would indicate.

Thank you, @underquark and @TheHutch! This is all super helpful. Yes, for sure the weird stuff is due to a poor XML scan. But with these moves, I was able to fix almost all of the file — and learn quite a bit about the program in the process.

There’s just one remaining issue: M 41-43 should be two measures of 8th-note triplets, and M 48-49 should be one measure of the same. As far as I can tell from reading the handbook and seeing a few forum posts, there is no way that I can ask MuseScore to turn those notes into triplets. The only way to get triplets is to manually add them. Do I understand that correctly, or has anyone figured out a work-around for turning regular notes into triplets?

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In reply to by underquark

Yes, I've never found a way to convert non-tuplets to tuplets (and I don't believe that there actually IS a way). I usually add the appropriate number of measures immediately after or before the incorrectly interpreted tuplets. I enter the notes, as appropriate tuplets, and then delete the measures with the incorrect rhythms.

By deleting the measures after I've entered the tuplets, I can input the correct notes from the incorrect rhythms, and verify the newly entered notes against the scanned ones. Once I'm sure that I've entered the notes correctly, only then do I delete the measures with the incorrect rhythms.

I appreciate all the responses, thanks!

Meanwhile, working with the Measure properties dialog to correct XML errors has led me to an additional question:

It seems that one cannot select multiple measures and use that dialog to change all of the selected. For example, I selected several and tried to change the Actual property to the correct duration. When I did so, only one measure was affected. Is there a way to use that dialog to change a range of or all measures?

In reply to by tombersax

No, the properties of the measure can only be changed individually, measure by measure.

You have a place where the '4/4 Common Time (c)' is set. This is probably wrong - put the 2/4 instead.
But it could be that the triplets are causing trouble. You have to set this place to 4/4 beforehand.

In reply to by HildeK

Yeah, I’ve got it all fixed but in the process ran into a number of work-flow issues, of which this is one. In this case, it sure would be nice to be able to do a multimeasure edit. Not sure why that would be hard to implement, but I’m new here so I’m just trying to get the lay of the land.

Thanks for the response.

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