Transposing instrument workflow

• Feb 27, 2025 - 19:12

I am transcribing an orchestral score and can't figure out how to get the correct workflow for transposing instruments.

When I enter notes on my digital piano, those are concert pitches. The piano is not a transposing instrument. And I want MuseScore to then write the correct written note for that sounding pitch. I don't want "Concert Pitch" on, because the score I'm transcribing isn't in concert pitch. I want always to be able to visually compare the two scores, and immediately know if I've made a mistake.

I can see how the "concert pitch" workflow can be very useful -and even that it is designed to make this easier- but what I want is total non-interference from Musescore. Its extra assistance is driving me crazy.

  1. I read the note in the score correctly. Meaning (as the arranger and not the player) I transpose it in my mind so that the note I read, say, and play is the concert pitch.
  2. I play that pitch
  3. Musescore instead writes notes as if I'm blindly copying without understanding what I'm reading.

Please tell me there is a way to do this the right way. Whatever the conventional way is in contemporary software, the default behaviors are not how transcription works. If -as a working musician- I sit down with an orchestral score and play it, I am not playing transcribing instruments "as written" or I lose my job. Likewise if someone plays notes for me on the piano and asks me to write them for -say- alto sax, I transpose the sounding notes -which are playing out loud and therefore concert pitch- to the correct written notes for that instrument, or -again- I lose my job.

I very much want MuseScore to work this way. Have I missed a setting somewhere?

Comments

• Feb 27, 2025 - 21:16

Choose a non-transposing instrument. Play in your notes using your digital piano and then select the corresponding transposing instrument, e.g. alto saxophone, trumpet or horn.
Musescore will then convert this into the correct notated representation.
Assuming I have understood you correctly ...

Reply

• Feb 27, 2025 - 21:45

It's definitely not a talent. If I can't practice it while I work on the scores, I'm going to have to stop using Musescore for orchestra scores, because this is the practice time that builds and keeps the skill. It's a little like having an app that automatically converts your scores to C major so you never have to play in other keys.

.... so what happens in the real world when I'm not using the app?

Reply

• Feb 27, 2025 - 22:49

Here is my workflow
Screen Shot 2025-02-27 at 2.07.34 PM.png

I'm entering notes. The cursor is on 2nd Clarinet in A.
1. The next note is another F#. It is not an A.
2. I want to play F# on my piano and
3. a) musescore writes the correctly transposed note in the score.

I want the two side-by-side. I don't want to use another instrument as a 'scratch pad'. This is a manuscript from a collection riddled with errors. I need to read the music, and play each part as I work to check it. And I need Musescore in Transposing mode: the two scores should look the same except where I have identified errors.

There's a reason for each step. I don't want to PLAY the transposed line. Only a genius can pay and hear three lines in different keys and say, "yup, that voice leading works if they're all played in the same key". The whole point of the device "transposing instrument" is that the written pitches are never -ever- sounded out loud.

I think if we all just slow down a sec and consider what I'm asking, it's exactly what is supposed to happen. If I'm writing for viola, I play the sounding pitch, and Musescore positions the notes on the Alto clef where they belong. If I want the open C string, I don't play a B a seventh higher because "that's the note that it looks like on the staff if you ignore the clef and read it as if it were treble clef". That's crazy. I don't want my audio, my keyboard, or my musical workflow in transpose mode, I want MUSESCORE in transpose mode.

There is also a glitch here. Currently, when I play a note, Musescore plays two pitches. I'm on an instrument in A, so I get little diminished chords everywhere I go.

I've got nothing against shortcuts and simplifications when appropriate, as long as the transparent functionality that is how-it's-done remains available.

Reply

• Feb 28, 2025 - 16:48

The written notation for transposing instruments is no different from any other instrument: you write whatever the performer needs to read, to produce the correct CONCERT pitch. The meaningful pitches are the concert pitches. If a conductor couldn't transpose instantly in her head, she couldn't hold a rehearsal. Likewise, the rehearsal pianist who might get asked to play "the brass section" for reference, must read directly to concert pitch. There is literally no other way.

Likewise every professional working with scores does the transpositions in their head. Playing the music at the piano to see what's there, arranging existing music or another score into a new form... the the only way to reconcile transposing parts is to be able to read transposing instruments directly into concert pitch, so that you can play the correct notes. Otherwise you couldn't even compare the clarinet part to the alto sax part, because they're in different transposing keys.

Likewise, anyone transcribing a manuscript which is not already known to be note perfect, must do it "my way" in some form or another. The notes must be checked, that's not optional. Ahecking them by hearing them in the head without playing them is a skill so uncommon it is never assumed. in Orchestration class you're taught to transpose transpose transpose until you can work naturally at concert pitch with transposing instruments excatly as you do with the notation of any other instrument. It's a continuity of method, notation, and process which is why it's standard practice, regardless of how rare it's becoming. Sitting in front of an orchestral score, I work out loud in concert pitch, not because it's "my way" but because that is how it's done. And that's how it's done because that's what the information in the score means.

I want to know what settings make Musescore do with transposing instruments EXACTLY what it does with every other instrument, and what its most fundamental functionality is supposed to be:
Given the correct sounding pitch, write in notation what the performer must read to produce that note.

At all times and places, the notes we "play into" MuseScore are concert pitches and MuseScore writes whatever it needs to write, so that the performer will reproduce that note. That's what music notation IS. All places except, for some reason, transposing instruments where this functionality is most crucial because the conversion is more complex.

The default available modes are obviously useful
--Playing the written pitches directly into musescore is a copying shortcut, since --to directly copy scores and parts-- you don't need to know what the notes are, just work as quickly as possible. Great!
-- Working in concert pitch for all instruments and then at the end letting musescore magically transpose to a traditional score for handing out parts.... well... it makes arranging, orchestration and performance with transposing instruments possible for anyone who can read music. Great!

But these are shortcuts. They don't replace the fundamental job of being-notation-software: I tell it what will be played, it writes the notation. But I think the answer I'm getting is that in MuseScore, this is not possible. Or are the settings somewhere? I can't find them.

Reply

• Feb 28, 2025 - 17:16

Maybe I've jumped ahead. If you're not used to working with transposing instruments you might not realize the mistake MuseScore is making.

  1. Musescore CAN transpose after the fact: turn on concert pitch. Work in concert pitch. At the end, turn off concert pitch, and the relevant parts are automatically transposed. Voilà.

  2. Transpose on:
    To work directly with transposing instruments (concert pitch off), there is no before and after. Instruments always read "transposed".... but the note input is also transposed. What you play, is no longer considered concert pitch. Musescore requires you to enter the incorrect sounding pitch... the note that the musician will read. In other words
    a) on the one hand, with Transpose on, -unless they're just blindly copying- the user HAS to be able to transpose in their head, because the app no longer recognizes concert pitch. The only way to write a part quickly is to know the transposition by heart.

b) on the other hand, because note input is no longer concert pitch, you can't compare anything. If you enter the alto sax part then the clarinet part, you'll play two lines in two different keys. You can't hear how they relate to each other. The purpose of mental transposition -being able to compare transposing instruments as music (at sounding pitch)- is lost.
It's the worst of both worlds.

The most useful feature of mode b) is copying. If i was just copying this score and I expected it to be accurate, the current mode is fine. Great, in fact. However, any other task may be ruined because your note input has been hijacked. And, as with my example, not even copying is a given, if the parts have to be checked.

Does that make sense?

Reply

Do you still have an unanswered question? Please log in first to post your question.