Rests created per voice on different hights in the staff
When using multiple voices in one staff creates identical rests above each other (in v 1.3 they ware on top of each other, effectively creating one rest in printed output).
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This is a feature, and that is normally correct behavior. In 1.3 you had to manually move rests to avoid collisions with the contents of other voices. Now that is done automatically.
There are some very specific musical situations - places where both voices have the same rest at the same time and the rest of the content of the measure is such that no confusion would result - where it can be acceptable to let the rests overlap. But these cases are the exception, not the rule. In those cases, you can simply move the rests manually.
In reply to This is a feature, and that by Marc Sabatella
Well, for choral music this happens a lot.. I checked quite some of our music and the rests being identical happens way more then them being different per voice. This new behaviour will cost me quite some work.
It would be nice to have a feature to 'combine rests when identical' and centre the rests in the staff.
Basically the version 1.3 behaviour when identical.
In reply to Well, for choral music this by Rob Jasper
Yes, choral music is somewhat unique in this way. Most music that uses multiple vocies uses them specifically because the rhythms are different - indeed, that's the whole point of using multiple voices for most music.
See also http://musescore.org/en/node/34511 for previous discussion of this topic. It turns out it is not easy to programmatically determine the situations where it is legal to combine rests and those where it is not. One solution might be to have an explicit command you have to give to cause the rests to ignore muliple voices - something you set in the Inspector, perhaps. So you'd select all rests for a voice then check that option. I don't know that this is actually much easier than doing the same thing but just adjusting them manually. Right click a rest, select / more / same voice, then us Inspector to move them all to the center line at once.
In reply to Yes, choral music is somewhat by Marc Sabatella
OK, I just tried 2 things here:
My music starts with one 2 beat rest, followed by a single beat rest. This results in 4 rests in the beginning of the 1st staff.
I tried to move the rests of both voices to the center, to discover that the spacing is not the same...
So, the second rest of voice 2 in not completely overlapping the second rest of voice 1 (horizontally).
Then I wanted top make the rests for one voice invisible to dicover I can't do that. If I select a rest and right click it there is no manu item 'make invisible'. Should I create a separate issue for this behaviour?
In reply to OK, I just tried 2 things by Rob Jasper
How did you try to move the rests? Normal way would be using the Inspector or double click then arrow key. It should be perfectly possible to make the rests align - you just need to move the top one down and the bottom up. Two "clicks" each (either cltr+up/down, or 2sp adjustment in Inspector) should do the trick.
As for making things invisible, that too is in Inspector, or the keyboard shortcut "V". The right click menus have deliberately been simplified favor of the Inspector.
The 2.0 way of creating rests up and down for different Voices is way better than 1.3 IMHO about 98% of the time. It might be nice to have a feature whereby you could select a range of music and apply a "Consolidate rests" command or similar that would resolve matching rests from different Voices into single rests. You'd have to have some fairly complex rules such as only resolve contiguous rests from the start of a measure or to the end of a measure (no isolated "orphan" rests in the middle of runs on two or more Voices).
For the times when I want to do this (2% in my case but I appreciate that it will be more common for vocal-only scores) I usually just [Ctrl]-click on the Voice 2 rests in turn and press "v" to flip them to invisible then I [Ctrl]-click on the Voice 1 rests, press F8 to call up the Inspector and set the Vertical offset to 2.00sp.
In reply to The 2.0 way of creating rests by underquark
Moving the rests on top of each other wasn't the solution as they were misalligned horizontally.
One can't remove any rest of voice 1... (undocumented 'feature' :-))
But, removing the rests of voice 2 works (just select and hit delete), and the move the rests of voice 1 down.
Would still be a nice feature to do that automagically. I think the logic could be rather simple: If the rests are the same for all voices in a staff, then make all but the staaf 1 rests invisible and centre the voice 1 rests.
A switch as you suggest "consoldate rests over voices in staff" would then trigger the rests being visible or not.
Thanks for being with me on this!
In reply to Moving the rests on top of by Rob Jasper
Not sure what you mean about rests not being aligned horizontally. The only way that would normally happen is if they weren't on the same beat. If you are seeing a case where they weren't aligned even though they were on the same beat, please post the score you are having problems with.
As I explained in the other thread I referenced, it really isn't so simple to detect the cases where it is musically legal to combine the rests. It isn't enough to just see if there happen to be rests on the same beat in voices 1 & 2; you also have to analyze voices 3 and 4 and see what they are doing on that beat - possibly holding a note that started earlier, possily nothing until later in the measure, etc.
Still, maybe it's not necessary to get it perfect. As I said elsewhere recently, use of voices 3 & 4 isn't that common. So maybe in cases where you are using voices 3 & 4 and therefore it is not correct to combine the rests in voice 1 & 2, it would be acceptable for MuseScore to do so anyhow, and you would then have to fix those cases manually. But hopefully that would be less common.
In reply to Not sure what you mean about by Marc Sabatella
Marc,
![2014-12-18_1024.png]( "2014-12-18_1024.png")
I tried to reproduce the misalignment. What I did was creating 2 voices (1 & 2), both starting with 2 rests. Then I selected each rest from voice 2 and moved them 2 steps up. After this I moved the rests of voice 1 2 dteps down. Guess what, they were perfectly aligned!
So, I can't reproduce the problem of the misalignment of the second rest anymore.
Sorry to have caused you extra work looking into this.
In reply to Marc, I tried to reproduce by Rob Jasper
That's OK, I didn't spend any time investigating horizontal alignment beyond what it took to write up that response, because I already knew it worked :-)
Regarding the automatic merging of similar rests in different voices:
I checked, and neither Sibelius nor Finale do this by default either. They behave the same as we do - all rests are offset if there multiple voices involved. Maybe there is some option somewhere to disable that.
I also looked at what would be involved in doing this ourselves. The best algorithm I could come up is to merge rests iif there are rests with identical rhythms in voices 1 & 2, and nothing on that same beat in voices 3 or 4. As I said above, this isn't perfect, but it covers the majority of cases well. I'm still not convinced it is proper to do this in general, though. Seems it should maybe be a style option "Merge rests where possible" or something, or maybe something per staff, because there's a good chance you'd want it for vocal staff but not piano staff in same score.
But I'm thinking this seems like something better to address after 2.0, if/when we look t some other automatic layout enhancements.
In reply to That's OK, I didn't spend any by Marc Sabatella
Marc, since we have a decent workaround it does not seem very important. One could only say it's a nice to have, but I am sure there are enough more important problems to solve.
Your suggestion to take another look at it in some futre release is OK with me.
We have added the capability discussed where hiding a voice 2 rest automatically causes a voice 1 rest to return to the center. It is not out of the question that at some future date, we might make this fully automatic, perhaps controllable by a staff property. But for now, the new feature should be a help for these cases - just a single keystroke to get the centered rests.
In reply to We have added the capability by Marc Sabatella
Marc, this is great, thanks a lot!
In reply to We have added the capability by Marc Sabatella
Hi guys, may someone help me to get rid of this rest showed in the image below?
Thanks
In reply to Hi guys, may someone help me by wdsouza1
You don't need to use Voices 3 and 4 here—these "Voices" are counted on a per-staff basis. So, your TB staff, though it may arguably be using a third and fourth voice, has only two voices on the staff—so it should use Voice 1 and Voice 2 again.
In reply to You don't need to use Voices by Isaac Weiss
And if you only have voice 1 and 2 in a given staff and make the voice 2 rest invisible, the voice 1 rest at the same beat automagically goes down to the the center if the staff.
In your S/A staff you have hidden both, which is wrong, as now to the musicians there is a beat missing.
In reply to Hi guys, may someone help me by wdsouza1
Thank you very much for the answers.
Now i'm using just voices 1 and 2 on each staff.
I wish we had a simpler way to mute some voices than to select all notes and uncheck the option play.
Thank you, again.
In reply to Thank you very much for the by wdsouza1
Are you aware selecting all notes of a single voice is already very easy? Just select all then use the Selection Filter (see View menu) to exclude voices you don't want to select. Just a handful of clicks to mute all notes of any given voice. Another method: right click on note, Select / More, check the options for same staff and same voice.