Where can I get back to the French lute TAB?
I have been using French lute tablature through the nightly build version, and have just tried the 2.0 BETA thinking maybe the lute TAB was in it.
I can't seem to find any lute TAB, and on top of that when I import my previous French TAB pieces they have been turned into guitar TAB.
So, do I need to go back to the nightly builds, or is the French tab for lute (6 lines and abe type letter symbols)??
Thanks, it was working well until now.
Comments
Forgive if misunderstand, have you selected: All instruments?
Then right click, Stave Properties
In reply to Forgive if misunderstand, by Shoichi
Thanks, I found it, did not see it could pop down.
The other feature that I hope might be added is the ability to have beams / time symbols with every note, but I can;t see this as an option.
I am thrilled that I can enlarge the staff, could never figure that feature out before.
I can't seem to get a time signature to show, not sure if this is available.
Anyway, I'm happy now!
In reply to Thanks, I found it, did not by shelmica
To customize what displays on tab staves, right click the staff and select Staff Properties. You can enable time signatures there, but then go to Advanced Style Properties to get see lots more tab-specific options.
In reply to Forgive if misunderstand, by Shoichi
I am trying to create lute tab.
I am running v. 1.3 - rev 5702.
How do I select "all instruments"?
If I go to "new score" then "create new score from scratch", then
I get a list of instruments. I can't find "lute" anywhere there. I checked under "plucked strings" and "guitar". I don't see any button for "all instruments".
Where do I go from here? I apologize for being a newbie.
--Sarge
In reply to I am trying to create lute by sgerbode
Hope this pic helps :)
In reply to Hope this pic helps :) by ChurchOrganist
Thanks! My error was in not selecting a blank template.
So I have lute tab selected, and French tab, and it is starting to look doable. But I don't know how to enter a rest. When I hit a note duration and a 0 (per the instructions for regular notation), I get an "a" under the rhythm flag instead of no note. My usual data entry for tab is to input all the rhythm flags first, then the notes on a second pass.
I have a lot of questions about lute tab. Is there a particular thread for this topic, is this the thread, or should I create one?
--Sarge
In reply to Thanks! My error was in not by sgerbode
I'd start by reading the entry for Tablautre in the 2.0 version of Handbook (still in progress): http://musescore.org/en/node/7845. However, I don't see rests addressed specifically. Semicolon (";") enters a rest.
In reply to Thanks! My error was in not by sgerbode
Hello Sarge,
Welcome to the MuseScore forum. And so delighted to see you here :)
For those interested by the lute and early music, we are so grateful for your considerable work of rewriting facsimiles. I myself use regularly.
1) To answer your questions about the Tab functionality with MuseScore, it would be useful to start by reading these two threads:
- http://musescore.org/en/node/9273
- http://musescore.org/en/node/7845
2) As for how to enter rests directly via the tablature, you must use keyboard shortcuts, i.e.
- Whole rest: Shift + R, Shift + S (to be very explicit: you must hit Shift + R, then/and Shift + S)
- Half rest: Shift + R, Shift + M
- Quarter rest: Shift + R, Shift + R (easiest to remember!)
- Eight rest: Shift + R, Shift + Q
There are no shortcuts beyond those notes values. I do not know if this is a limitation for you?
For my part, I think a shortcut for a 16th rest (and beyond perhaps?) would be helpful. I do not know what is your opinion about this?
Feel free to ask other questions. We are few now to be familiar with Tabs of MuseScore, which Miwarre, who wrote the code.
N.B.: if you need that rests are visible on the Tab, use the Tab type "Full" or, for other types of Tab, do: Right-click on a measure -> Staff Properties -> Advanced Properties -> Tick "Show Rests" -> Ok -> Ok
In reply to Hello Sarge, Welcome to the by cadiz1
OK. Running 86e51ad. I've got the rests in OK, thanks. Next question/observation: the rhythm flag notation for half notes are nonstandard (either slashes or short stems). Also, these are more like whole note flags. In regular lute tab, these would show up as having a little backward slash at the top. Is there a way of implementing this?
Attached is a file that shows how I like tab to look.
Other requests:
2. I prefer a c that looks a bit like an r, as it's more readable. I suppose this would involve using an alternate font of some kind.
3. Is there a way to beam or unbeam specific rhythm flags?
4. I note that with archlute as the instrument, it still shows 6 as the number of strings, and the additional ones (14 total, in the case of my instrument) have to be entered manually.
5. Rests appear to be entered OK, but appear on the staff like mensural notation, instead of above the staff as rhythm flags.
6. Is there a way to save a particular group of settings as a new template?
I am sure I have a million more questions, but this is a start.
--Sarge
In reply to OK. Running 86e51ad. I've got by sgerbode
I'll try to answer you in the most complete way possible at this stage. Still under the control of Miwarre, who will correct or clarify certain points if necessary.
1) Depending on the configuration, the rhythm flag notation for half notes, indeed, is represented by slashes and short stems. A choice was made at some point, I guess. For my part, I find these anachronistic slashes (it is almost the only regret I have in the Tabs section of MuseScore - among all the other huge satisfactions ...) This could be addressed in a separate thread perhaps?
I know you use Fronimo software. Each software has its specificities. So I'm not sure that you find the exact same style, item by item ;-)
As you know better than I, the writing for lute and related instruments is very far from being standardized according to the country, period, authors, etc.
However, MuseScore has many resources ... :) To approach the Fronimo style, you need to adopt this configuration in Advanced Style Properties (Notes Values: MuseScore Tab Italian -> Tick: "Note Symbols"
![configuration 1.jpg]( "configuration 1.jpg")
![flags1.jpg]( "flags1.jpg")
For this result (here, with numbers! But the same of course with letters)
- For the whole note flag, that you would like with a little backward slash at the top, I'm not sure, according to the sources that I can see, that this practice is known or at least common? Rather a style unique to Fronimo instead?
2) This has already been discussed on this forum: http://musescore.org/en/node/25841
A compromise was adopted in last October by Miwarre which improved this point to made precisely this "c/r" more readable. Here: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/commit/278f852fa2c25c46b0a138ff4…
Can we imagine one day have the choice of a font that allows to have strictly this form of an 'r' for the second fret? For the next versions of MuseScore, why not hope, since this topic is regularly raised, and that is turned out historically in the various sources available.
3) Not sure I understand completely. Perhaps you are referring to the fact that beams are connected as in some manuscripts (see the following excerpt from William Ballet ms.)?
![william ballet.jpg]( "william ballet.jpg")
Again, and this time I speak under your control, it is not certain that this practice is most common? The practice is generally that if the rhythm does not change, one does not rewrite the same value, until the next change.
However, MuseScore has many resources ... :)
![configuration 2.jpg]( "configuration 2.jpg")
![stems beams.jpg]( "stems beams.jpg")
In this case, you can change the configuration, and adopt this one (Note Values -> Font: MuseScore Tab Italian -> Show as: stems and beams)
For this result:
4) As the point #2, this has already been discussed on this forum: http://musescore.org/en/node/43801
It was considered that the tuning of these different instruments was not sufficiently standardized, and that the choice was up to the user (for me, it's not really a trouble).
But maybe can you make (in the thread mentionned just above) proposals for choice of tunings which, if they are not "standard", would be however the most widely accepted today?
Your expertise in this area would be useful to all :)
5) This is the question that I do not understand at this time. Can you attach an example to illustrate what you mean? Thanks.
6) Yes. When you have chosen a number of settings, you can save as a template, and reuse it later.
For the other “million more questions”, we await with interest! :)
Don't forget also to share your experience with the use of MuseScore. This will be useful in one way or another. Thanks.
In reply to I'll try to answer you in the by cadiz1
1. the back-tick for whole note is quite common in French and English tab sources. I will try to come up with a good example.
2. I did discuss the c/r thing on another thread.
3. Beams: well, there are two basic styles, both of which are very common:
a. A rhythm flag holds until canceled by another rhythm flag.
b. Every note has a rhythm flag and flags with two or more right-ticks are beamed in a
manner similar to modern music.
In my own editions, I prefer the latter, because it is easier to read and also because it allows
the editor to specify the phrasing more exactly. Ideally there would be a plausible default
to the beaming, depending on the time signature, but also this could be tweaked by the
editor to beam or unbeam specific notes. You would want the same feature in mensural
notation, e.g. to follow a vocal line better (separate syllables in the lyrics would be attached
to separate notes, but if several notes were sung to a single syllable, these would be beamed
together.) In fronimo, you can beam or unbeam a note using the "-" key.
4. Answered on another thread (43801)
5. How to make rests appear above the staff as rhythm flags -- I think I figured this one out, though I'm still a bit shaky on doing it right every time.
6. I gather it is possible to save a template. I just couldn't find out how to do it.
--Sarge
In reply to I'll try to answer you in the by cadiz1
How do you get rhythm flags for rests displayed above the staff? I did Stem style: . The preview pane looks plausible, with rhythm flags above the staff (although it is in Italian tab, and I had selected French). But when I hit on the dialog box, then again on the box, the rests are still located as mensural symbols within the staff. Also, though I am typing a,b,c, etc, the notes are showing up as numbers 1,2,3, etc. on the tab staff.
Plus, I still don't know how to save a template.
--Sarge
In reply to How do you get rhythm flags by sgerbode
Here are the steps I have taken to try to get the stems and beams working above the staff:
Advanced staff properties:
Uncheck show clef
Tick show time signature
Tick Show barlines
Fret marks:
Tick letters
Tick Above lines
Lines are continuous
Font: MusicScore Tab Late Renaissance
Note values:
Font: MusicScore Tab French
Tick Stems and beams
Tick Beside Staff
Tick Above
Half notes tick "As short stem"
Hit OK
Hit OK
Hit Add note button.
Hit numpad 4, then ; [Nothing happens - neither did regular 4 + ;]
Hit RQ to get rests. Rests appear as mensural notation within the staff.
In Advanced Style Properties, hit “Note symbols”.
Get a series of note symbols above but touching the staff. Not bad, but the notes over the staff should be a little higher for my taste, not touching the staff and on the same height as each other. In stems and beams mode, I get mensural rests within the staff only.
I can’t figure out how to get the rests in stems and beams to work *above* the staff and, indeed, to appear as actual stems and beams.
--Sarge
In reply to Here are the steps I have by sgerbode
Rests To have rests displayed as mensural symbols above the staff, like symbols for notes, check the "Show Rests" in "Advanced Style Properties", tab "Note values".
These rests are displayed slightly lowered, so they cross the top staff line, as they appeared in many Italian tablatures I have consulted. I am not aware of rests being displayed in French tablatures, but it may be my limitation.
Beamed mensural symbols: they are not currently supported. The "Stem and beams" option is intended for modern tablatures. Incidentally: the options for the minim are also intended for the modern tablatures and replicate some actual usages.
Shortcuts: all available shortcuts can be seen and modified by menu "Edit | Preferences", tab "Shortcuts"; some shortcuts are specific to tablatures and they may duplicate key strokes used (for another action) in non-tablature staves. Many actions have no default shortcut, but a custom shortcut may be defined for them, like for any other action.
Note that not all shortcut keystrokes work equally well in different operating systems and/or with different keyboard layouts; this is a known limitation of the framework on which MuseScore is based, and which is very hard to overcome.
If you have other questions, ...
M.
In reply to Rests To have rests displayed by Miwarre
Thanks!
Actually, there appears to be little correlation in lute sources between the tab style (Italian, French, whatever) and the rhythm flag style. They need to be adjustable independently (see attached for example of French tab with note-like rhythm flags).
By "beamed mensural symbols", I assume you mean beams in rhythm flags. I was not able to get these to work properly in MuseScore, but they are extremely common, especially in MSS, but also in some printed sources, as in this example of German tab (D2.jpg), which also shows a rest in the 2nd staff, first bar and the 3rd staff, 2nd bar. The beams were never used with the note-like rhythm flags. I could get the stem and beam thing to work when the rhythm flag was over a note but not when it was acting as a rest, with no note under it. In the latter case, a mensural-style rest appeared in the middle of the staff, which makes it somewhat anachronistic.
Thanks for the steer on shortcuts. That should be very helpful.
On the subject of templates, I don't see any particular facility for this. I suppose one would just save a blank score with the proper format, and just read it in when ready to do a new one.
--Sarge
In reply to Thanks! Actually, there by sgerbode
"Actually, there appears to be little correlation in lute sources between the tab style (Italian, French, whatever) and the rhythm flag style. They need to be adjustable independently"
They are: the two tabs in TAB (pun not intended!) configuration dlg box, one for "Fret Marks" and one for "Note Values", are for these two aspects.
"By "beamed mensural symbols", I assume you mean beams in rhythm flags. I was not able to get these to work properly in MuseScore"
As I said above, they are not supported currently, as they require mixing two completely different systems, the vector-based system of stems-and-beams, which is the same as used for standard staves, and the glyph-based system used for rhythm symbols above the staff. Eventually, they will be supported, but there was already a huge lot of things to implements, test and fix, before venturing in further development.
Aside: the reproduction of manuscripts is outside the goal of current MuseScore implementation; on one side, the quality and availability of reproductions increased enough in the last one or two decades that, if you want to play from something similar to the original manuscript, using a reproduction of it is often the simplest way (it has limits, of course: a repro is not editable, the source may have defects, ...); on the other side, the variety of shapes, systems and arrangements exhibited by historical sources (not only tabulatures, but the whole range of music notation, from plainchant to German organ notation) is so great than achieving a reasonable coverage would be a daunting task.
"I could get the stem and beam thing to work when the rhythm flag was over a note but not when it was acting as a rest, with no note under it. In the latter case, a mensural-style rest appeared in the middle of the staff, which makes it somewhat anachronistic."
Sure! The stems-and-beams system is intended for modern tabs, which show rests within the staff, if they show rests at all. To have rests shown by the rhythm flags of historic tabs, the "Note symbols" option should be used, together with the "Show rests" option (without beamed rhythm flags, of course; did I say they are currently not supported?...)
"see attached for example of French tab with note-like rhythm flags": for rhythm 'flags' similar to these, the "MuseScore Tab Modern" font can be selected in the "Note Values" tab; it is not an exact reproduction of those shapes, but it is a comprehensible approximation, which also does double duty for some modern styles.
A detail which could be added with some ease is the repetition of the same rhythm flag when it does not change; I am speculating about four levels: never (current implementation), at new system, at new measure, always; it would apply to the whole score, though: local modifications of the repetition level (for instance, at a single measure) will not be supported.
Thanks,
M.
P.S.: this forum needs a quoting feature...
In reply to "Actually, there appears to by Miwarre
You are right about the quoting feature!
/[Beams in Rhythm flags] are not supported currently, as they require mixing two completely different systems, the vector-based system of stems-and-beams, which is the same as used for standard staves, and the glyph-based system used for rhythm symbols above the staff. Eventually, they will be supported, but there was already a huge lot of things to implements, test and fix, before venturing in further development./
Understood.
/The reproduction of manuscripts is outside the goal of current MuseScore implementation; on one side, the quality and availability of reproductions increased enough in the last one or two decades that, if you want to play from something similar to the original manuscript, using a reproduction of it is often the simplest way/
I completely agree. In fronimo and django, a lot of effort was put into reproducing as closely as possible the original appearance. But in fact, all my editions have exactly the same format, as it is the one I deem to be the most readable.
/(It has limits, of course: a repro is not editable, the source may have defects, ...)/
Sources typically have many mistakes -- average at least 2 or 3 per page. They didn't seem to have the same standards that modern publishers do. And also, probably about half of the material -- and some of the best -- is handwritten and rife with errors, smudges, drop-outs, etc., etc.
That being said, the style I use on my website has those features that I think are most readable, and the beamed rhythm flags are one of those features, as they allow the editor to group notes in a meaningful way that helps the performer make sense of the rhythm. I assume that is why, in modern mensural notation, beams are de rigueur. The same principle applies to using the r-like symbol for a "c". These little things make a big difference when you are sight reading in a performance.
Future stuff would have to include tenuto marks (for clarifying voice leading), ornament symbols or shortcuts for inserting same, and right-hand fingering symbols. Maybe some of this stuff already exists, but I haven't explored MuseScore deeply enough yet to run into it.
Anyway, I applaud your efforts. As my editions are free to all, I would like to think of them as open source, but they are not completely so long as it is necessary to use a proprietary music editor to create and modify them.
--Sarge
In reply to You are right about the by sgerbode
See this: #15251: [Forum] Quotation marks
In reply to You are right about the by sgerbode
Thanks for your detailed reply. Well, I have to totally agree with your purposes, as they are almost the same for my own editions (if you are curious, they can be found here , nothing for lute, though).
Another item I would like to address is a wider selection of fonts, including a late French set for letters, more similar to the engraved late XVII c. prints, which would include a real r-shaped 'c' you like so much.
M.
In reply to I am trying to create lute by sgerbode
Tablature is not supported in 1.3. This thread is discussing 2.0, available as a prerelease beta or nightly build.