Dynamic marks... Works?

• Jun 22, 2015 - 01:51

Hi, gang!!!

I downloaded some MIDI files from the web and I've been trying to adapt it, with MuseScore, the best possible way to perform it as the background music to an school event.

I don't have major problems with the music score itself, it looks... fine (I don't have to use it with a real orchestra, so...)

BUT... I don't know why the dynamics doesn't work. I mean, all notes have a fix level (volumen). I had to change the velocity of some parts (instruments) manually, note by note, because the dynamics marks (FFF, for example) didn't do anything with the level of those parts.

Is there some kind of lock inside the MIDI format files which MuseScore can't change? ???

I attach two samples (two very different works), the original MIDI files to your "homework" (hehehehe) with MuseScore.

Maybe it is just my PC problem, I don't know. But... it is so rare the dynamics marks doesn't do something into those files (when I create some score from the scratch, with MuseScore, the dynamics work so fine).

Thanks a lot for your time!!!

Greetings!!!!!!!

Juan


Comments

When importing a MIDI file, the notes do indeed have their velocities hardcoded. And MuseScore respects hardcoded velocities - that's an important feature. If you wish to override the hardcoded velocities, select the notes you wish to override (eg, Ctrl+A then press Notes button in Inspector if you wish to override those dynamics for *all* notes) then press the reset button next to the two Velocity fields in the Inspector to reset them to the defaults.

In reply to by jotape1960

Im happy that Juan got his problem solved. Mine is the exact same problem, except that 2.01 on my win7 X 64 will not read dynamics at all. I've checked some of your downloads, and I people are doing wonderful things with dynamics (after all, I suppose that's why they're called dynamics). I,ve written a piano accompanament to a vocal solo, and spent hours trying to find the problem, with no results. Can someone help me with this? Thanks

In reply to by ckilgore

Your file plays fine for me. Is there a particular measure where you are having trouble hearing the dynamics? Compare measure 3 to measure 23, for example - the ff is clearly a lot louder than the mf.

As for crescendos, they work if you tell MuseScore what dynamic you want them to start and end at. You have a crescendo in bar 24 that starts at ff, but the next dynamic level after that is mf, which makes no sense. In order to hear a crescendo, you would need to start quieter or end louder.

Also, the crescendo that appears to be in measure 24 is actually attached to measure 22. In order to work properly, markings have to be attached to the proper measures.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thanx for your response. I compared measure 3 (mf) to measure 23 (ff) as you suggested, and there is no difference when played back on my machine. I have no idea why. Actually, there is no crescendo in measure 24. It's possible that I found the error and corrected it after I sent the score in. There is a crescendo in 22 which progresses from mf to ff in measure 23. This is the effect I want. Just for giggles I changed the mf in 22 to to pp, so it should progress through the crescendo to ff in 23. Made no difference. I will keep tweaking until I eithr find a fix or give up. After all , it is displayed correctly on the score. But it's frustrating that I can't hear the score as I intended it to be heard. Any ideas? Intermediate.mscz

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

No, I uploaded the right score. Twice. Jaun's contention was that I had a crescendo on measure 24 marked FF, when actually there is no crescendo in 24. I initially thought I might have inadvertantly moved it to 24, but I went back and checked. The crescendo starts with the first note in 22 at MF and ends with the first downbeat of measure 23 at FF. The FF he referred to is not the beginning of a crescendo, regardless of the measure. It is the end of the Crescendo I started in measure 22, and is the dynamic I want to hear until I change it to F at measure 34. I placed an identical crescendo on measure 38, starting with MF and ending with FF. But crescendos aren't my basic issue. It is that 2.01 doesn't change the sound level no matter what I change it to or from. This is my first score with software. But I've been composing and arranging for 50 years and I do understand dynamics. I will readily admit that I've had a tough time learning Musescore (and I assume it will always be work in progress), but over-all, it is a God-send. Here is the routine I used to enter a single dynamic symbol and a crescendo:
1- Highlite the note where you want the setting to begin. 2-Go to DYNAMICS in the Master Palette. 3-Click on the Dynamic symbol desired. It places the symbol below the staff which contains the note you indicated. 4- Repeat when you wish to change to another dynamic. CRESCENDO: Set the beginning dynamic on the note where you want the crescendo to begin. Go to LINES in the Master Palette. Click on CRESCENDO. It will place the hairpin below the staff (actually on top of the dynamics symbol). It will display configuration boxes to enable you to drag the cerescendo to the point where you want it to end. Place a higher dynamics symbol at that point. Here's a thought: I prefer my dynamics symbols to be above the working staff, So I move them there, making sure they're aligned properly. Could this be causing the problem? But no, Jaun says they work for him. I do appreciate all the constructive critisism and assistance I can get, and you can bet I will be back with more head-scratchers. Merci, ckilgore

In reply to by ckilgore

I just downlaoded the score attached to this post: https://musescore.org/en/node/66156#comment-304096

This file very definitely has a crescendo that appears in measure 24, directly on top of the chords "C E Am". As I said before, though, while it *appears* to be in measure 24, it is actually attached to measure 22. And, while it *appears* to start at the beginning of the measure and extend to the end of the measure, it is actually only one note long. You can see this by double clicking the crescendo and seeing when the beginning and ending handles are attached. The beginning handle is attached to the first note of measure 22, and the end handle is attached to the second note of that same measure.

It appears you tried stretching it out with the mouse, and also dragging it from measure 22 to 24, but the mouse is only for fine adjustments, not for changing the actual range of the lines. It is very important to attach markings to the correct notes in order for them to play correctly. And in the case of crescendos, you have to attach both the beginning and ending to the correct notes - you can't simply stretch it out with the mouse. You have to follow the methods described in the Handbook: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/hairpin-0. Either select the range first then press the shortcut, or add the line from the palette then use Shift+Left/Right to change the end point(s).

As for the difference between mf and ff, maybe it's a little too subtle for you to be able to hear through whatever speakers you are using. Also, notice that you have attached some dynamics to the vocal part, others to the piano part. By default, dynamic markings affect only the part to which they are attached, although you can override this in the Inspector. There are many places therefore where your dynamics are out of sync - one part mf the other ff, etc. Not sure if that's deliberately, but it's probably contributing to why you don't hear a difference overall.

So, just to convince yourself it really is working, how about if add a "ppp" to both parts at the beginning of the score, then an "fff" to both parts in the next measure. I guarantee you will hear the difference. Then you just need to sort out which dynamics you want to apply to which parts and be consistent about it.

Also make sure crescendos and diminuendos are created properly, as described in the Handbook, and with clear dynamic markings before and after so MuseScore can tell how much change you want. For instance, the crescendo I mentioned that appears to be in measure 24 but is actually in measure 22 - the dynamic marking at the beginning is "mf". MuseScore then attempts to figure out how loud you want it to get, but the next dynamic it finds for that part is the "mf" in measure 28. So even though you wrote a crescendo, you didn't tell MuseScore - or the human musicians who may eventually read this score - how big a crescrendo you want. Humans might guess, but MsueScore doesn't - it relies on you to tell it explicitly. Either by adding another dynamic marking at the end of the crescendo, or using the Inspector to tell MuseScore exactly how much of a change you want to the MIDI velocity of the notes (on a scale from 1 to 127).

BTW, if you want all your dynamics above the staff, instead of dragging them one by one, simply set it that way in the style settings. Enter a dynamic, right click it, Text Style, and change the "Vertical offset" to how ever many staff spaces above the staff you want them to default. Now all dynamic marks will go there by default rather than below the staff. Since you have already entered lots of dynamics, you might right click one, Select / All simialr elements, then Ctrl+R to reset them to the (new) default position.

In reply to by ckilgore

I use MuseScore 2.0.1 in a PC with Windows 7, 64 bits, and it works so fine!!!

Dynamics work so fine, also, but the hairpins (which I feel it too much "rude" between notes, not a real gradual change). Anyway we can hear the level change.

Of course, it is a machine (a human invention). Not a real human musician.

Sometime I wonder if someday the human musician will be full replaced by the computers (or another machine)... ? ???

Greetings!!!

Juan

As I stated in an earlier post, This is my first score on a music editing software, and it's quite complicated. But if there is a crescendo on measure 24, then I'm blind, for the score I'm looking at, and have attached the subject measures from, it is located between the treble and bass clefs in measure 22. I don't know what you mean by "appears to be in 24". Also, I clicked on the crescendo, and the handle extends the full length of the measure, as does the hairpin. The beginning dynamic in 22 is mf, and the next dynamic is FF at the beginning of 23. This, as all my dynamics, was definitely intentional. If played off the score by a pianist, there would be no issue, but I have have to try to understand the way a computer program wants it done, and that I will. Thanks for the reply and especially for the tip on placing dynamics on the staves. And please understand I'm not being difficult, I'm simply trying to understand why you and I are seeing different things, or if I'm putting dynamics for the crescendo in the wrong place. I've dived into the handbook many time, but frankly, there have been more than a few instructions, when followed to the letter, simply do not have the effect they are supposed to. ckilgore.pdf If there is a glitch in my program, I need to uninstall and re-install, because it's definately not showing you what it shows me. Thanks so much. Ckilgore

In reply to by ckilgore

I once again down loaded the copy of the file you attached to post https://musescore.org/en/node/66156#comment-304096, and suggest you do the same, and don't rely on the version you have on your computer, which might be different.

Here is what I see when I load it, look at measure 22-24, and double click the crescendo:

crescendo.png

As you can clearly see, the crescendo appears to be in measure 24, but when I double click it, the dotted line equally clearly shows it is actually attached to measure 22.

The ff dynamic in measure 23 is attached to the top staff only and thus does not affect the crescendo in any way, since the crescendo is in the piano part. As I explained, dynamics by default affect only the part to which they are attached. The next dynamic *in the piano part* does not occur until measure 28, and it is mf. So that is why your crescendo does nothing - your dynamic makrings tell it to start mf and end mf, which works out to no change.

So, again, the lesson here is: you have to attach markings to the correct notes, measures, and staves. That is the only way MuseScore can determine their meaning.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Marc, you are an Officer and a Gentleman! Through patience and perseverence you have taught me what I could not teach myself. For the life of me I will never know how that crescendo got on 24 in your copy, but that's a mute point. Now I know how to set dynamics in MuseScore. Thank you so much for your kind assistance. ckilgore

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