Ability to "lie" about required instrumentation
Some sympathy for us organists! A fairly easy one, I would imagine.
Given that the entire model of organ architecture is at odds with the MIDI model of this and all music-editing applications, those attempting to credibly produce organ music, or write new compositions for organ, with MuseScore have to decide between two options: (1) Write the staves and notes as they appear in professional, standard organ music, and assign to the staves varying voices chosen from flutes and reeds on MuseScore that add up to a credible sound-set (2) Choose "organ", lose the ability to control contrasting sounds, or control registration or sound in any way, suffer the "short notes kill long notes" "feature", and lose the ability to perform any music not suitable for a very loud, if beautiful, plenum with 16' (there certainly is much music suitable for this sound, but not even all rock music is fortissimo).
The only reason, other than ignorance and laziness, why someone might choose (2), is so that someone searching for "organ music" finds the work, whose instrument is listed as "organ". If you do not care at all what it sounds like online, or are a truly fundamentalist believer in "MuseScore is a score preparation program; if you don't like its performance skills, use something else", perhaps this is adequate. But I suspect that even among the people who print scores from MuseScore (especially from the site) to play them on physical instruments, every single one first clicks "Play" to see what it sounds like.
Here is a movement I just prepared, with some care to simulate credible organ registrations, including mutation stops, https://musescore.com/user/1831606/scores/1361021 , which is listed as "recorder music" because I used/abused "recorder" to produce very credible organ flue sounds. It is listed as an arrangement for recorder; it is not. It is an organ score. I would like the ability to assert precisely that searchably.
The organ continues to play a mighty important role in the history of Western Music. Given that real support of organ music in MuseScore is not at all in sight, this little proposed feature would help a great deal. It would help others who find one or another sound inadequate (e.g., oboe for the slow-starting English horn) and would like to divorce MIDI instrument choice from "real instrument" cataloguing of the score.
Comments
Isn't that like Aeolus, which we had to remove from MuseScore, as the original author Fons Adriaenson didn't agree?
In reply to Isn't that like Aeolus, which by Jojo-Schmitz
Could you provide further detail on this, either posted here or by private site mail? How could anyone take major issue with a button that you don't have to press? I want to affect cataloguing/indexing, not score appearance or performance.
In reply to Could you provide further by [DELETED] 1831606
What about using an organ instrument and put a flute instrument change at the beginning?
In reply to What about using an organ by [DELETED] 5
Interesting; let me play with that. It would be nice to remove "recorder" from the cataloguing altogether. Or I suppose I could invisibly introduce the "organ" at the silent invisible rest at the end.... While that may suffice for a patch, I do believe that the explicit divorce of MIDI choices from intended real-world instruments, when needed, remains a noble goal.
In reply to Interesting; let me play with by [DELETED] 1831606
At least, you could select an organ as instrument in the new score wizard, and then change the sound to flute in the mixer. I don't think MuseScore.com would pick the score as being for organ right now, but at least it could in the future. Currently there is nothing in your score to hint MuseScore or MuseScore.com that it's actually an organ score.
In reply to At least, you could select an by [DELETED] 5
That latter ("Currently there is nothing in your score to hint MuseScore or MuseScore.com that it's actually an organ score.") is exactly, no more, and no less, than the problem whose solution I seek.
Selecting "organ" in the new score wizard also gets you a three-staff instrument whose voices cannot be decoupled (change one, change them all). Independent voices is the name of the game here. The sound is not "flute"; there are different voices on different manuals that could be at different pans and volumes, too. The way the score is right now sounds exactly correct; on the ability to "pick it as being for organ (and not 'recorder' - no 'recorder' could play it)" is all that is lacking. MIDI instrument choice does not equal real-world instrument choice.
"MuseScore" per se doesn't really have to know; MuseScore.com does, though.
In reply to That latter ("Currently there by [DELETED] 1831606
I added an "instrument change" before the last (invisible) rest, but I don't see "organ" yet listed among the indexed instrumentation (I know that that field can take a while to change, but it may not, since there are no "notes' for "organ" in the score).
In reply to What about using an organ by [DELETED] 5
The problem is that when uploading to MuseScore.com it doesn't read the TrackName, but I think bases its classification on the GM Patch Number - as an example this score I produced has the Part and Track names set to organ but MuseScore.com reports them as Other Woodwind and Organ....
https://musescore.com/churchorganist/scores/708191
In reply to The problem is that when by ChurchOrganist
You clearly have many, many beautiful organ offerings creatively scored and suffering exactly this problem, so you, too, would benefit greatly if it could be alleviated.
In reply to Could you provide further by [DELETED] 1831606
Aeolus is a pipe organ simulator based on additive synthesis techniques.
If you are interested in the sorry saga you can find it here.....
https://musescore.org/en/node/22815
In reply to Aeolus is a pipe organ by ChurchOrganist
I took a look at this. I'm not interested, in this suggestion, in incorporating or duplicating a pipe-organ simulator. All I want to do is say "this is for organ!", so that somebody looking for such finds it. I'm not proposing any enhancement or change at all to performance or visual score capabilities. The only part of the organ I wish to "simulate" is the sign on the stairway to the organ loft that says "organ loft."
In reply to I took a look at this. I'm by [DELETED] 1831606
As previously noted - this is a problem with MuseScore.com - not MuseScore itself.
You need to contact MuseScore.com directly - probably the best way would be to use this MuseScore.com group........
https://musescore.com/groups/improving-musescore-com
Either that or hope that Thomas reads this thread.
In reply to As previously noted - this is by ChurchOrganist
Well, yeah, but unless there is some new metadata field for MuseScore.com to look for, the latter's hands (and feet) are tied. So it's a problem with both.
In reply to Well, yeah, but unless there by [DELETED] 1831606
There is already a trackName XML tag for MuseScore.com to read from. which is part of MuseScore's internal XML file format.
In reply to There is already a trackName by ChurchOrganist
This trackname can be translated in any of the 50+ languages that MuseScore supports and it can be set to anything by the user. It's not going to work to use it for indexing scores on musescore.com.
If you want a score to be labeled as an organ, score it for organ and not for recorders. Change the sound if you want but keep the instrument as being an organ. At least, MuseScore.com will have something (the instrument id) to rely on in the future. Currently, there is nothing we can do for a score like this, since organ is not even mentioned.
(PS: I'm in charge of the MuseScore.com backend, one of the developer of MuseScore and the MuseScore apps, not a random stranger)
In reply to This trackname can be by [DELETED] 5
Exactly which method shall I use to "score it for organ" (choosing a single organ from the New menus is useless, as the three staves cannot be handled separately) and which to "change the sound" (instrument change? mixer? Staff properties?). I want it to sound correct and be labelled correctly. My thesis is that it is a bug that now I have to choose between those.
"Organ" is not a "sound" but a parallel, earlier theory of instrumentation to MuseScore.
In reply to Exactly which method shall I by [DELETED] 1831606
Good heaven!
I did what the man said, and I think I've achieved success on this:
https://musescore.com/user/1831606/scores/1361906
I scored THREE organs of one staff each, and put an instrument change at the first note, and the indexing says Organ(3) (that is, I created the score for "three organs" and deleted two staves out of each). (of course, I can hide the instrument-changes) This may be the Holy Grail...stay tuned ....
In reply to Good heaven! I did what the by [DELETED] 1831606
Holy Hauptwerk, Arp!
https://musescore.com/user/1831606/scores/1361961
If I'm not mistaken, this sounds and indexes correctly. The technique I used (described above) ought be documented. Thanks, guys for helping me straighten this out.
In reply to Holy Hauptwerk, by [DELETED] 1831606
I have enhanced the above score-posting to include 5-step instructions for this technique. Take a look.
In reply to I have enhanced the above by [DELETED] 1831606
@BSG, have patience, I have to speak my mind and I do not know the music :(
Still work by changing the name of the instrument such as Manual / Pedal (Organ Stops)?
In reply to @BSG, have patience, I have by Shoichi
No, if you want "organ" indexing, you must have "organ" as the "real" instrument behind the staff, and you must "mid-staff" change to the instruments by which you wish to implement the "organ". In short, "mid-staff change" provides all you need to "lie about instrumentation", although for multi-staff instruments, it's tricky (see what I posted).
In reply to As previously noted - this is by ChurchOrganist
I have messaged Thomas with a link to this.
I've debugged and separated the instructions for these techniques into their own page (the "About" on this page. Comments by site-mail, please.)
https://musescore.com/user/1831606/scores/1365101